Is the SF better than the SV (2 Viewers)

[bh46118]

I have absolutely no brand loyalty, and the HT is a binocular I would also like to see.

Some have said it is great, some have been underwhelmed. Same goes for the SV. You still need to try one before knowing much of anything.

Not reading minds but you will get opinions all over the map when the only opinion you need will be with your own two eyes.

I have an HT, and opinions vary - some of which seemed to think it was a bit of an upgrade from the FL. I'm glad I didn't take those to heart as my eyes find the HT to be a big step up from anything previous, even the vaunted / revered / deified SV series. Of course, you may not see it that way........and that's the point. I don't think you will ever get consensus - the SF will have the greater FOV, the SV sharper to the edge.....the rest will be personal preference, ergo's, brand cachet etc., all things that are entirely individual.

I have given up on commenting much here, as it has all boiled down to brand loyalty [for some...maybe me to some extent, making me a less than neutral observer] and personal preference of attributes. To some sharp edges are meaningless - to others they are the holy grail. One binocular will never be the final, ultimate answer when wants and needs are so personal and variable.

 

[bh46118]

I have said the same many times in a lot of my past posts. Unfortunately my eyes cleaned my wallet out to the tune of $1900. :-O

The only opinion you need will be with your own two eyes.

 

[Sagittarius]

Who has the best Schott at being the best ?

It might come down to who puts the better coatings on their Schott HD glass. B
Haven't seen an SF but guess I would favor it due to the FOV.
After all, how can one Schott lens be better than another Schott lens of equal quality ? :brains:

Guess it depends on whether the Schott lens are mounted in an SV owned by a fan of Swarovski or an SF owned by a Zeiss fan. |=)|

Maybe Leica has the best Schott lens of all! |;|

 

[AndyRB]

Andy,

The eyecups work the same as the ones on the old Zeiss Victory FLs.

When you open the eyecups the first time do it slowly to get the feel of how they work. Start from the closed position. Open it slowly till it stops. Then gently nudge it a bit and you will feel a click where it locks into position at the 1st level. Then slowly move it up to the 2nd level and click it into the lock position. Then slowly open it fully and click it into place.

You can do this very fast and run right past the intermediate positions without noticing them.

Bob

Thanks for this Bob, but initially the eyecups were so tight and creaky when moving them that it was hard to find any intermediate position. Nudging wasn't an option due to how tight they were, which prevented any quick movement. They arrived in the post and I let the retailer I bought them from listen to them moving when I held a phone near and they could clearly hear the stiction. This has been forwarded on to the Zeiss rep. However, after opening and closing them numerous times the tight, plastic creakiness is not as severe as it was and there is one middle stop that can be located and locked into, but this doesn't feel as precise as I imagined it would. So there is fully closed, a stop around 1cm and then fully open at around 1.3cm and trying to move beyond that the whole eyecup rotates. So most definitely not the two intermediate stops indicated in the instruction booklet. The fact that these needed to be 'bedded in' by the customer and they still sound very creaky when moving is, for me, unacceptable for a product so flaunted by Zeiss and costing this much. I can't imagine how little the eyecup units cost Zeiss, relative to the rest of the body, but it has certainly put me off buying other Zeiss binoculars. I still can't get over the fact that as these were among the first released in the UK they came with wrong end covers.

 

[Torview]

Hi Andy,

What do you think of the rubber armour ?, personally I felt it would mark badly and look a bit scruffy quite quickly, especially the smooth bit on the inside of the bridge.

John.

 

[AndyRB]

Hi Andy,

What do you think of the rubber armour ?, personally I felt it would mark badly and look a bit scruffy quite quickly, especially the smooth bit on the inside of the bridge.

John.

Hi John

I quite like it from a handling and grip standpoint, but the durability remains to be seen. It's not as 'coarse' as the Swarovski armour and I also was wondering about the durability and how it would mark. I guess we'll only find out in the long term..... I would assume that this factor would have been extensively tested in labs and in the field prior to release?

Fingers crossed on this as the eyecups and end cover issues I've mentioned has left me with some doubt over Zeiss quality.

It's a real shame after so much anticipation for these that there are issues being raised at this early stage of their release. After paying so much for them I would have loved to have had a more positive initial experience.

 

[AndyRB]

Just to add some more detail. In the SF case there is a zipped pocket and I've just noticed that the metal body of pull tag of the zip put a small dent in the armour of the SF.

 

[Hermann]

I have an HT, and opinions vary - some of which seemed to think it was a bit of an upgrade from the FL. I'm glad I didn't take those to heart as my eyes find the HT to be a big step up from anything previous, even the vaunted / revered / deified SV series. Of course, you may not see it that way........and that's the point.

The HT has been a big step forwards if you compare it to the FL, I think. Better ergonomics, better handling of stray light, better contrast, especially in bad light conditions. In the image centre the 42mm HTs are in my opinion also quite clearly better than the 42mm SVs, and their handling of stray light is a lot better. They're really good binoculars.

The interesting question now is if the SF is as good as the HT in the image centre. I had a feeling when I tried it at the trade show that it was, or at least that it was very close. But I can't be sure until I have a chance to try the SF in the field. And after thinking about what I saw for a couple of weeks, I think I'll wait some more before I make up my mind what to get.

I'm not in a hurry ...

Hermann

 

[jan van daalen]

LOL!!!

The "point" I try to make is that you can easily change an F... eye cup and a objective cover in a bin but you can't change the balance and FOV in that bin.

Jan

 

[perterra]

LOL!!!

The "point" I try to make is that you can easily change an F... eye cup and a objective cover in a bin but you can't change the balance and FOV in that bin.

Jan

That is very true.

 

[Troubador]

Thanks for this Bob, but initially the eyecups were so tight and creaky when moving them that it was hard to find any intermediate position. Nudging wasn't an option due to how tight they were, which prevented any quick movement. They arrived in the post and I let the retailer I bought them from listen to them moving when I held a phone near and they could clearly hear the stiction. This has been forwarded on to the Zeiss rep. However, after opening and closing them numerous times the tight, plastic creakiness is not as severe as it was and there is one middle stop that can be located and locked into, but this doesn't feel as precise as I imagined it would. So there is fully closed, a stop around 1cm and then fully open at around 1.3cm and trying to move beyond that the whole eyecup rotates. So most definitely not the two intermediate stops indicated in the instruction booklet. The fact that these needed to be 'bedded in' by the customer and they still sound very creaky when moving is, for me, unacceptable for a product so flaunted by Zeiss and costing this much. I can't imagine how little the eyecup units cost Zeiss, relative to the rest of the body, but it has certainly put me off buying other Zeiss binoculars. I still can't get over the fact that as these were among the first released in the UK they came with wrong end covers.

Eyup Andy

Posting to you from the deep south (Sheffield) o

I don't want to make light of your disappointments and especially of the eyecups. This is something that Zeiss probably gets fed up of me going on about.

However, I too always associated a tight and 'graunchy' feel with 'cheap and nasty' but there is a saving grace that I only came to appreciate after I got a pair of glasses with significantly different frames from those I have had in the past.

With eyecups are as stiff as you describe, you can safely set them to positions in-between the official 'click-stops' and only need to check occasionally or not at all when you are out birding. This way you may be able to obtain a better balance between seeing the full field of view and avoiding 'blackouts' or 'kidney beans', the shadows that get in the way at one side or another if your eyes don't align with the exit pupil.

So now I have most eyecups on my bins screwed up by about 1.5 mm from the full down position. If the eyecup is a tight bitch (to use Jan's technical term) I leave it unassisted, if it is looser I put a rubber o-ring under it of 1.5mm cross-section and the right diameter.

Lee

 

[AndyRB]

After all this heady talk around 'alpha' binoculars I've just come back from walking our border collies and I took my superb little Kite Lynx HD 8x30s with me. Obviously I couldn't resist trying the eyecups - as smooth as silk - despite their flaw of not locking when fully out, but, these are less than a quarter of the price of the SFs.

As a customer with not the remotest connection to the optics, or birding trade do I feel let down by Zeiss and the fact that they bear a signature of a quality check, not least their comment of the "VICTORY SF is the new benchmark for birding and wildlife observation in the 125-year development of ZEISS binoculars" [see http://www.zeiss.co.uk/sports-optic...ictory-binoculars/victory-sf-binoculars.html] - a resounding YES! There are simply no excuses that can be argued, even Jan's comment of "
The "point" I try to make is that you can easily change an F... eye cup and a objective cover in a bin" which makes light of the fact [ignoring the F... insinuation...really?...is that needed???] that they shouldn't have been released with these faults, however small.

To return to the focus of this post: Is the SF better than the SV?

After a day with the SFs and disregarding these negatives: for me, for aesthetics and handling if I gave the SV 90%, I would give the SFs 95%. I love their look and feel, and just that bit more than the SVs. Optically, from an non-expert they are as good as each other, but just different here and there and that then becomes a subjective response.
So, in my mind they offer the customer an "alternative" to the SV, assuming Zeiss get their act together on these issues and avoid fitting eyecups that would only be fitting for bottom end binoculars.

Now back to what I really should have been doing this weekend.

 

[ceasar]

Thanks for this Bob, but initially the eyecups were so tight and creaky when moving them that it was hard to find any intermediate position. Nudging wasn't an option due to how tight they were, which prevented any quick movement. They arrived in the post and I let the retailer I bought them from listen to them moving when I held a phone near and they could clearly hear the stiction. This has been forwarded on to the Zeiss rep. However, after opening and closing them numerous times the tight, plastic creakiness is not as severe as it was and there is one middle stop that can be located and locked into, but this doesn't feel as precise as I imagined it would. So there is fully closed, a stop around 1cm and then fully open at around 1.3cm and trying to move beyond that the whole eyecup rotates. So most definitely not the two intermediate stops indicated in the instruction booklet. The fact that these needed to be 'bedded in' by the customer and they still sound very creaky when moving is, for me, unacceptable for a product so flaunted by Zeiss and costing this much. I can't imagine how little the eyecup units cost Zeiss, relative to the rest of the body, but it has certainly put me off buying other Zeiss binoculars. I still can't get over the fact that as these were among the first released in the UK they came with wrong end covers.

Andy,

I think the whole eye cup is rotating because it has not been properly tightened after the eye cups have been put back on after being removed.

You can unscrew the eye cups and take them off. You probably know this by now.

You take them off from the fully opened position by turning the cups to the left until they come off. They are designed this way to make cleaning the ocular lenses easier.

When you put them back on, after they are in the bottom position, be sure you tighten them with a little extra twist to the right. This will keep them from coming loose and causing the eye cup to rotate. Mine rotated before I learned to tighten them after I put them back on.

I also can hear the eye cups on mine working when they open and close if I keep my ear to them and I can feel the changes in position if I open and close them slowly. I think this is normal for these eye cups.

Bob

 

[AndyRB]

Andy,

I think the whole eye cup is rotating because it has not been properly tightened after the eye cups have been put back on after being removed.

You can unscrew the eye cups and take them off. You probably know this by now.

You take them off from the fully opened position by turning the cups to the left until they come off. They are designed this way to make cleaning the ocular lenses easier.

When you put them back on, after they are in the bottom position, be sure you tighten them with a little extra twist to the right. This will keep them from coming loose and causing the eye cup to rotate. Mine rotated before I learned to tighten them after I put them back on.

I also can hear the eye cups on mine working when they open and close if I keep my ear to them and I can feel the changes in position if I open and close them slowly. I think this is normal for these eye cups.

Bob

Thanks for the tip, Bob. I've not actually taken them off. But when turned to the left and full extension they then just keep rotating rather than actually coming off, or unscrewing and if I do try to tighten them after they are on full retraction they just keep rotating to the right.

 

[Troubador]

Gentlemen

We have ladies visiting this site.


Lee

 

[AndyRB]

Gentlemen

We have ladies visiting this site.


Lee

Well said and I'm glad an earlier post seems to have been removed, it seems some can't reply in a mature and constructive manner without the need to resort to crude and misogynistic language and insinuation.

 

[perterra]

Well said and I'm glad an earlier post seems to have been removed, it seems some can't reply in a mature and constructive manner without the need to resort to crude and misogynistic language and insinuation.

It's because we all inhabit different worlds, In the field I work in, crude and misogynistic language is considered normal. CEO's and owners use it as readily as do the guys sticking steel together.

 

[AndyRB]

It's because we all inhabit different worlds, In the field I work in, crude and misogynistic language is considered normal. CEO's and owners use it as readily as do the guys sticking steel together.

In your field it may well be appropriate and I can imagine there will be many other working environments where it is similar; in the distant past I have worked in construction and steel works on both the ground level and in management. In this forum I assume there will be a broad range of people viewing and also taking part and surely out of respect that should be considered by making a response that will not risk offending others.

 

[perterra]

In your field it may well be appropriate and I can imagine there will be many other working environments where it is similar; in the distant past I have worked in construction and steel works on both the ground level and in management. In this forum I assume there will be a broad range of people viewing and also taking part and surely out of respect that should be considered by making a response that will not risk offending others.

Not disagreeing with you, just saying not everyone has the same convictions of what is proper.

 

[AndyRB]

Not disagreeing with you, just saying not everyone has the same convictions of what is proper.

Sure, point taken.