New Zeiss Victory SF !!!!!! (16 Viewers)

[ceasar]

This is moreless what says the second article I linked above. Zeiss' selling optronics may also be related to military business in Germany becoming more difficult, as the current Government is slightly less keen than previous ones on permitting exports to countries like Saudi Arabia etc.



Not sure if you think this would indicate anything regarding Zeiss' involvement in military products. But Zeiss Company or the Zeiss Foundation do not have any direct link or a relationship more close than others to the Government. Zeiss ist just one of the bigger and more prominent companies in Germany and Merkel showed up for the birthday party. Different to Airbus, the current owner of Zeiss former optronics department, of which the German state still owns about 12 %.

As for Schott, this has been discussed extensively in another thread, they are a different company from Zeiss (just both owned by the same foundation), so the policy of one company to get rid of military stuff, does not necessarily exclude the other one to continue being active in this.

Finally here another article, about Optronics now being 100% owned by Airbus, so 0% by Zeiss. http://airbusdefenceandspace.com/cassidian-optronics-now-airbus-ds-optronics/

Dalat

I find this to be a very fine distinction if it is even one at all. If they are both owned by the Carl Zeiss Foundation and both contribute to its profits then they both contribute to its losses.

Someone from the foundation must sign off on these sales because they will have an effect on the value of the Foundation. For instance, the Supervisory Board of Carl Zeiss AG has 16 members half of which are from the Foundation. The other half are from the workforce. The Supervisory Board of Schott Glass AG has 12 members: Half from the Foundation and half from the workforce. The phrase used is "equal parts shareholders representatives --- and employees representatives."

There doesn't seem to be much of a wall separating the Foundation from the Corporations.

We saw from the awards the Foundation received from the German government that the Foundation donated almost $100,000,000 dollars (80 million Euros) in subsidies to German Universities to promote the sciences since 2007. Of course these donations were made possible by the profits made by the 2 corporations.

Bob

 

[dalat]

There doesn't seem to be much of a wall separating the Foundation from the Corporations.

Yes, sure, you're right. Not sure any more where we disagree, if we do at all? Zeiss AG sold all of its defence operations, Schott goes on selling glass to the defence industry, all in happy agreement with each other and the foundation. Something like that I guess...

High time someone comes along with a real life report on a Victory SF and lead us back on topic B

 

[stereotruckdriver]

Yes, sure, you're right. Not sure any more where we disagree, if we do at all? Zeiss AG sold all of its defence operations, Schott goes on selling glass to the defence industry, all in happy agreement with each other and the foundation. Something like that I guess...

High time someone comes along with a real life report on a Victory SF and lead us back on topic B

Yep, would be nice.

Bryce...

 

[NDhunter]

Yes, sure, you're right. Not sure any more where we disagree, if we do at all? Zeiss AG sold all of its defence operations, Schott goes on selling glass to the defence industry, all in happy agreement with each other and the foundation. Something like that I guess...

High time someone comes along with a real life report on a Victory SF and lead us back on topic B

Dalat:

You and some others went off on a tangent, and were talking about
Zeiss and anything having to do with military and defense contracts.

That is a very important thing to all of us that are free to read this
thread. What is the matter with that ! It means much and is very
important. Many countries, value quality with optics in the military
and in their defense. It is vital to survival.

Now, the Swiss, that is another matter, this goes way back.

Jerry

 

[jan van daalen]

Lee,

I don't see any contradiction. And I don't have any money invested in the company. I don't see how the Carl Zeiss Foundation will lose much, if anything, as long as Schott AG still has Defense clients.

Bob

I bought recently on a military surplus auction an Zeiss laser rangefinder which measures up to 18000 meters, which costed (new price) on manufacturing day 90.000,00 euro. It weights 28 kg and has a 14x50 built in binocular with laserschutz. It's built like a tank and all the mechanisms (X & Y ax) work perfectly. I estimate that in raw material Schott glass there will be an added value of a few hundred euro's.
My point here is, that the added value of Schott glass in Zeiss Defence is limited.

Jan

 

[ceasar]

I bought recently on a military surplus auction an Zeiss laser rangefinder which measures up to 18000 meters, which costed (new price) on manufacturing day 90.000,00 euro. It weights 28 kg and has a 14x50 built in binocular with laserschutz. It's built like a tank and all the mechanisms (X & Y ax) work perfectly. I estimate that in raw material Schott glass there will be an added value of a few hundred euro's.
My point here is, that the added value of Schott glass in Zeiss Defence is limited.

Jan

By golly Jan!

If this is such a small insignificant portion of the profits of the Carl Zeiss Foundation then they could get completely out of the warfare industry if they would just let China, Russia, or Japan make all the glass for the Defense industries of the world!

Everybody here would feel so much better about that!o

Bob

 

[etudiant]

I bought recently on a military surplus auction an Zeiss laser rangefinder which measures up to 18000 meters, which costed (new price) on manufacturing day 90.000,00 euro. It weights 28 kg and has a 14x50 built in binocular with laserschutz. It's built like a tank and all the mechanisms (X & Y ax) work perfectly. I estimate that in raw material Schott glass there will be an added value of a few hundred euro's.
My point here is, that the added value of Schott glass in Zeiss Defence is limited.

Jan

Hi Jan,
That sounds like a very fancy bit of gear.
Zeiss Jena offered their OEM-2 stereoscopic rangefinder in the 1980s, also built around 14x50 optics. That was a very expensive design and needed a skilled user, but as it was entirely passive, no active laser emission needed, it had real advantages militarily. It would be interesting to compare your purchase to that bit of peak optical equipment from the waning days of the Warsaw Pact .

 

[jan van daalen]

Hi Jan,
That sounds like a very fancy bit of gear.
Zeiss Jena offered their OEM-2 stereoscopic rangefinder in the 1980s, also built around 14x50 optics. That was a very expensive design and needed a skilled user, but as it was entirely passive, no active laser emission needed, it had real advantages militarily. It would be interesting to compare your purchase to that bit of peak optical equipment from the waning days of the Warsaw Pact .

ET,

Sounds like it is the same one.
I'll make some pictures of them coming wednesday.
I wrote in for five pieces and ended up with two OEM-2 and one model (before the OEM-2).
This OEM does has a laser device IMHO. Complete gear in a big box incl accu to activate/connect the laser equipment. When you activate it (push a bottom) something inside that laserdevice starts "singing". As I've uderstood you need three of these OEMs to ge a triangle measure. Building quality of the mechanics and performance of the optics are impressive.
I sold one to a hotelowner near the beach which keeps is at the lobby of his hotel so guests can watch seals etc. with it. 28kg, weight so it will never be stolen out of the lobby!!

Jan

 

[etudiant]

ET,

Sounds like it is the same one.
I'll make some pictures of them coming wednesday.
I wrote in for five pieces and ended up with two OEM-2 and one model (before the OEM-2).
This OEM does has a laser device IMHO. Complete gear in a big box incl accu to activate/connect the laser equipment. When you activate it (push a bottom) something inside that laserdevice starts "singing". As I've uderstood you need three of these OEMs to ge a triangle measure. Building quality of the mechanics and performance of the optics are impressive.
I sold one to a hotelowner near the beach which keeps is at the lobby of his hotel so guests can watch seals etc. with it. 28kg, weight so it will never be stolen out of the lobby!!

Jan

Jan,
There used to be a wonderful site regarding military optics of the DDR, including the OEM-2 , a labor of love by Guido Thuernagel.
The OEM-2 section is here: http://home.arcor.de/thuernagel/oem2.htm

Apparently there was also a superlatively designed heavy tripod for this, as well as a specialized alignment unit. The OEM-2 does require electrical power to work, but is quite passive, it apparently creates an apparent depth indication that is aligned with the target to provide the distance measurement. A skilled operator was required just to perceive this correctly. This stuff is I believe the highest quality mil spec optics publicly available, but it needs an instruction manual to really show its stuff.

 

[8x60deckmount]

zeiss oem 2

the Oem 2 is very nice . I do have two units but didnt know there is a laserdevice to use with theme .

 

[etudiant]

the Oem 2 is very nice . I do have two units but didnt know there is a laserdevice to use with theme .

There is no laser in the OEM-2, if what I read is correct.
My understanding is that there is a device to make a reference marker appear to move in the stereo image the OEM-2 provides. That reference marker shows the distance to the target.
In the DDR in the 1980s, when this unit was designed, lasers were not common currency, especially not solid state lasers rugged enough to serve in the field.

My apologies for drifting this thread away from the SF.

 

[8x60deckmount]

There is no laser in the OEM-2, if what I read is correct.
My understanding is that there is a device to make a reference marker appear to move in the stereo image the OEM-2 provides. That reference marker shows the distance to the target.
In the DDR in the 1980s, when this unit was designed, lasers were not common currency, especially not solid state lasers rugged enough to serve in the field.

My apologies for drifting this thread away from the SF.

Yes I do know that there isnt a laser inside of the the OEM2 . I was wondering if there was some one to put on outside of the unit .
The Oem2 works in that way that you have to use your stereoeffect in the view and seeing the depth of the reference marker in the picture . There is an electric pendelmecanism to get bether results when you use it . Thats the noise you will hear when you use the knob on the right side. Its standing on the rangeadjustmentwheel
It was designed from 1969 to 1976 and was in production from 1976 to 1989

The unit do still work without an electric power . You then only miss the reticle light and the pendeleffect . The pendeleffect can be done by hand.


It isnt 14x50 - its 14x45 and bas 520 mm . It have a mecanical coordinate finder that is very well buildt .
The earlier model is the EM 61

This firm have bought the complete service units and spare parts units for the OEM 2 : http://www.optikservice-schilling.de/

 

[jan van daalen]

Jan,
There used to be a wonderful site regarding military optics of the DDR, including the OEM-2 , a labor of love by Guido Thuernagel.
The OEM-2 section is here: http://home.arcor.de/thuernagel/oem2.htm

Apparently there was also a superlatively designed heavy tripod for this, as well as a specialized alignment unit. The OEM-2 does require electrical power to work, but is quite passive, it apparently creates an apparent depth indication that is aligned with the target to provide the distance measurement. A skilled operator was required just to perceive this correctly. This stuff is I believe the highest quality mil spec optics publicly available, but it needs an instruction manual to really show its stuff.

ET,

Thanks and exactly the same item. Even the tripod is the same.
Jan

 

[jan van daalen]

There is no laser in the OEM-2, if what I read is correct.
My understanding is that there is a device to make a reference marker appear to move in the stereo image the OEM-2 provides. That reference marker shows the distance to the target.
In the DDR in the 1980s, when this unit was designed, lasers were not common currency, especially not solid state lasers rugged enough to serve in the field.

My apologies for drifting this thread away from the SF.

Since there is not so much news on te SF, apologies are not needed

 

[jan van daalen]

the Oem 2 is very nice . I do have two units but didnt know there is a laserdevice to use with theme .

These are impressive photo's.
Down here they went for 300 euro's a piece. I'll dismantle it also. Much nicer.
Thanks.

Jan

 

[dalat]

Very interesting piece of equipment! Not just testimony of German engineering qualty, but its name, Raumbildentfernungsmeßgerät, is also a very nice example of the beauty of the German language :-O

I think the principle of measurement must be the same as in analogue photogrammetry. I could use one of these machines during my studies, absolutely fascinating ...

 

[jan van daalen]

Very interesting piece of equipment! Not just testimony of German engineering qualty, but its name, Raumbildentfernungsmeßgerät, is also a very nice example of the beauty of the German language :-O

I think the principle of measurement must be the same as in analogue photogrammetry. I could use one of these machines during my studies, absolutely fascinating ...

Florian,

For you 300 + freight.

Jan

 

[BruceH]

Since there is not so much news on te SF, apologies are not needed

Maybe .... but it would be nice to see these other run-on discussions in their own threads rather than further diluting the SF topic.

Good luck to anyone joining this thread late and having to wade though it in order to find information relevant to the new Zeiss SF.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

When Gerold Dobler gave a presentation about the construction of the SF at the introduction of the binoculars at the Dutch Birding Association, he told us that some aspects of the SF construction were protected by patents (perhaps of importance to those readers of this forum who are of the opinion that after the nineties of the past centuries no new binocular developments did take place). Perhaps Lee may know more about these patents.
Gijs

 

[dalat]

Jan, very temping offer o The price must be a bargain for this monster. I'll leave it to you to make some collector very happy

Good luck to anyone joining this thread late and having to wade though it in order to find information relevant to the new Zeiss SF.

Bruce, the good thing is, if you have read this thread, no need to read anything else any more in binocular-birdforum, everything has been said here already.

he told us that some aspects of the SF construction were protected by patents (perhaps of importance to those readers of this forum who are of the opinion that after the nineties of the past centuries no new binocular developments did take place).

Gijs, i had a go at google patent search, and found this one, however rather supportive of the "opinion that after the nineties of the past centuries no new binocular developments did take place": :-O https://www.google.ch/patents/USD6...&sa=X&ei=XppzVKCPD8y8Pf3ngLAN&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ

On the other hand, this recent Zeiss patent looks very interesting (although of course I don't really get what it really is about, but it reads as if Zeiss has continued to work on the IS mechanism of the 20x60): https://www.google.ch/patents/WO2013104595A1?cl=en&hl=de&dq=zeiss+binocular&ei=XppzVKCPD8y8Pf3ngLAN