Noctivid 10x42 Olive Green Edition (1 Viewer)

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Mike F, post 39,
I know and the quality of the binoculars made in Portugal are of excellent quality as far as I have seen during our investigations. Nothing wrong with it.
The discussion is of course: when is a label Made in Germany valid, since many customers have a strong belief that the sign Made In Germany stands for excellence.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Lee, post 40,
It is also known that Meopta makes optical components for other binocular companies in Germany.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Troubador]

Gijs,

I do know the story you're telling me (again). I am well educated by a man who listens to the same name as yours, but.......
There is no production of optics by Leica in Wetzlar. Marketing and PR stunts like Made in Germany are BS and for complete different reasons compared to the reasons you mentioned.

We must split the discussion between where it is made and the quality.

Jan

Almost everything, probably everything, that you touch when you handle a Leica, Swarovski or Zeiss binocular is not made by the bino brand. Moulded components such as the armour, eyecups, focus and dioptre wheels as well as ocular guard, objectives guard and neck strap are all made by specialist companies not by the bino brand. Add the fact that the internal o-ring seals and the precision-machined focus components are also outsourced to specialist companies then you must surely reach a point where, for example, 'Assembled in Germany' becomes more truthful but I am equally convinced all the brands are compliant with EU law with regard to country of origin.
And as Jan has pointed out, this is a completely different question to that of quality.

Lee

 

[Troubador]

Lee, post 40,
It is also known that Meopta makes optical components for other binocular companies in Germany.
Gijs van Ginkel

Gijs it is certainly known that Meopta has produced optical components for other sports optics companies and even entire products but this side of Meopta's business has been reduced in recent years. Here is an excerpt from my interview with Milos Slany of Meopta in August 2018:

Troubador: Meopta is a maker of optical components for other companies too, isn’t it?
Milos: Actually, today, making optical components for this purpose is less and less important, and we are concentrating more on very specific and sophisticated components, for example aspherical elements. To illustrate this the turnover of Meopta is 50% or more industrial optical systems for example to the semi-conductor manufacturing industry, plus sub-components and devices for measuring, as well as digital projection systems, then Sports Optics accounts for about 20-25%, loose optical components 10-15% and finally 5-10% is military devices.

Since then the the passing of Paul Rausnitz has seen many changes taking place at Meopta.
Lee

 

[Ontario]

Almost everything, probably everything, that you touch when you handle a Leica, Swarovski or Zeiss binocular is not made by the bino brand. Moulded components such as the armour, eyecups, focus and dioptre wheels as well as ocular guard, objectives guard and neck strap are all made by specialist companies not by the bino brand. Add the fact that the precision-machined focus components are also outsourced to specialist companies then you must surely reach a point where, for example, Assembled in Germany becomes more truthful but I am equally convinced all the brands are compliant with EU law with regard to country of origin.
And as Jan has pointed out, this is a completely different question to that of quality.

Lee

Safe to say “Made in China” actually means it’s made in 🇨🇳

 

[Troubador]

Safe to say “Made in China” actually means it’s made in 🇨🇳

Probably, but it wouldn't be surprising if some components made in Malaysia contribute..............

Lee

 

[Ontario]

Probably, but it wouldn't be surprising if some components made in Malaysia contribute..............

Lee

More so with made in Japan many parts are outsourced to their Asian counterparts.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Lee, when we visited the Leica company in Wetzlar some time ago we could not detect binocular production. However the new Leica Ultravid 8x32 HD plus we recently acquired says: "Made in Germany".
I think that I need a sip of Dutch gin to kill my confusion.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Ontario]

No, the Hungary factory continues to supply components to Wetzlar for sports optics and also to Zeiss Vision (spectacle lenses).

Lee

Didn’t they take a hit during restructuring? Does that plant have the capacity as in case of Leica\Portugal all the pieces were in place their plant was monderized people trained Zeiss would have some hoop's to jump thru probably not financially viable much easier to just pass the tariff onto the consumer.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

I looked into some of our lab. inventory:

• Leica Duovid 8 and 12x: made in Germany
• Two different Leica rangefinders: Made in Portugal

The origin of the production is in every case clear (Made in Portugal is a bit difficult to read, but it is there).
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[Troubador]

Lee, when we visited the Leica company in Wetzlar some time ago we could not detect binocular production. However the new Leica Ultravid 8x32 HD plus we recently acquired says: "Made in Germany".
I think that I need a sip of Dutch gin to kill my confusion.
Gijs van Ginkel

Excellent idea! Oude Bols Geneva made in Netherlands would be my choice!

Lee

 

[Troubador]

Didn’t they take a hit during restructuring? Does that plant have the capacity as in case of Leica\Portugal all the pieces were in place their plant was monderized people trained Zeiss would have some hoop's to jump thru probably not financially viable much easier to just pass the tariff onto the consumer.

Yes there were changes due to restructuring but nevertheless, Hungary continues to supply as I described.

Lee

 

[Ontario]

Blaser.de is another German Sports Optics brand that proudly markets their binoculars as made in Germany but they seem to be made by the Japanese OEM Kamakura Koki.

This is clearly misleading marketing even though it meets German legal requirements with respect to country of origin.

From Blaser.de website

Blaser Optics – Binoculars

Discover the Blaser binoculars. Developed for hunting – featuring high transmission, neutral color reproduction and innovative SLP coating. Made in Germany.

www.blaser.de

“As enthusiastic hunters, it gave us the opportunity to develop binoculars that are completely tailored to the requirements of hunting. We worked with the best and brightest minds in the business for this task. The result is first-class hunting optics “Made in Germany”.

Common re-branded Kamakura's?

I'm a confessed binocular junkie and bargain-hunter. That's an awful combination! Through the dozens, if not now hundreds of pairs of binoculars I've used, one of my all time favorites is a pair of Cabelas-branded Outfitter HD's that were made by the Kamakura factory. I've owned two of them...

www.birdforum.net

 

[Ontario]

GPO (German Precision Optics) has been called out on another forum for their name since none of their products are made in Germany. GPO is not a manufacturer all their products are imported from Asian OEM’s.

Minox is long gone exists in name only similar corporate structure as GPO all their products are like wise imported from Asian OEM’s.

Steiner has morphed.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Nowhere on the GPO binoculars is mentioned Made in Germany, so GPO is just a name and it does not suggest that it is made in Germany. The owners, however, are German citizens who had an important function in leading German optical companies before they started GPO. And it is also well known that GPO binoculars are made for GPO in Asia. So nothing wrong with that name in my opinion.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[jan van daalen]

Blaser.de is another German Sports Optics brand that proudly markets their binoculars as made in Germany but they seem to be made by the Japanese OEM Kamakura Koki.

This is clearly misleading marketing even though it meets German legal requirements with respect to country of origin.

From Blaser.de website

Blaser Optics – Binoculars

Discover the Blaser binoculars. Developed for hunting – featuring high transmission, neutral color reproduction and innovative SLP coating. Made in Germany.

www.blaser.de

“As enthusiastic hunters, it gave us the opportunity to develop binoculars that are completely tailored to the requirements of hunting. We worked with the best and brightest minds in the business for this task. The result is first-class hunting optics “Made in Germany”.

Common re-branded Kamakura's?

I'm a confessed binocular junkie and bargain-hunter. That's an awful combination! Through the dozens, if not now hundreds of pairs of binoculars I've used, one of my all time favorites is a pair of Cabelas-branded Outfitter HD's that were made by the Kamakura factory. I've owned two of them...

www.birdforum.net

ZZZ,

Blaser is not a German Sports Optics brand.
It is a hunting fire arm mfr which is trying to create more sales by cross selling (you get a discount on our bin when buying our gun). Nothing wrong with that and I can even understand when they "bend the Law" to their advantage and make their bins Made in Germany.
What I refuse to understand is the fact that top optics mfrs do the same while outsourcing that same product.
The quality of the Conquest is undisputed as is the Leica Trinovid.

Jan

 

[Ontario]

ZZZ,

Blaser is not a German Sports Optics brand.
It is a hunting fire arm mfr which is trying to create more sales by cross selling (you get a discount on our bin when buying our gun). Nothing wrong with that and I can even understand when they "bend the Law" to their advantage and make their bins Made in Germany.
What I refuse to understand is the fact that top optics mfrs do the same while outsourcing that same product.
The quality of the Conquest is undisputed as is the Leica Trinovid.

Jan

OK well the same can be said about Steiner and Minox offerings. Why does this matter Blaser is marketing the binos as Made in Germany?

Steiner is part of the Beretta Group. (a gun company with Steiner and Burris optics)

Home - Beretta Holding

www.berettaholding.com

Minox is part of the Blaser Group and they even list Blaser as brand along with Minox on their website.

Blaser Group | Globally Successful, Regionally Rooted.

The Blaser Group is one of the world’s leading manufacturers in the hunting and outdoor industry. Brands: Blaser, Mauser, Sauer & Sohn, Rigby, Minox, BGO.

www.blaser-group.com

 

[jan van daalen]

Minox is/was well known by their 007 spy ware camera's and AFAIK never ever built optics in this century.
Steiner is a optics mfr from Beyruth Germany and produces the Porro optics. These are made in Germany. AFAIK the roofs aren't and yes Beretta bought it but Beretta never claimed they make optics. Blaser does (these are Minox clones but who knows).

Jan

 

[Ontario]

Minox is/was well known by their 007 spy ware camera's and AFAIK never ever built optics in this century.
Steiner is a optics mfr from Beyruth Germany and produces the Porro optics. These are made in Germany. AFAIK the roofs aren't and yes Beretta bought it but Beretta never claimed they make optics. Blaser does (these are Minox clones but who knows).

Jan

The Japanese OEM Kenko Tokina made the Minox Optics for them.

MINOX | ケンコー・トキナー

ケンコー・トキナーの「MINOX」のラインナップです。

www.kenko-tokina.co.jp

Kenko also made the original Vortex Razors for Vortex and I believe they make the GPO Passion HD for GPO.

*Binos for Docter optics.

 

[jafritten]

Lee, when we visited the Leica company in Wetzlar some time ago we could not detect binocular production. However the new Leica Ultravid 8x32 HD plus we recently acquired says: "Made in Germany".
I think that I need a sip of Dutch gin to kill my confusion.
Gijs van Ginkel

I have no doubts every Leica binocular is made in Portugal these days. That's perfectly all right with me. I'm just interested in the quality and that is exceptional. The same goes for Leica (photographic) lenses that were made in Canada.
I've unboxed a few Leica binoculars and if I remember correctly, those labelled "Made in Germany" had a German name on the quality control card whereas the ones "Made in Portugal" had Portuguese names. So, I guess with the German ones they just screw on the eyecups in Germany and have them controlled in Germany to comply with European law.