Interesting Optics Trade discussion on where Leica binoculars are made. (1 Viewer)

[Paultricounty]

My first Noctivid 8x42 was Made in Portugal and I returned it due to the focus wheel. IMO, the Made in Portugal sample seemed lower quality than the Made in Germany sample I have now. This Made in Germany sample is perfect in every way.

Dennis, I’m confused because your getting rid of it for the SFL because the Noc has to much glare. And you went back to the Habicht because it too has to much glare, because it had to much glare as a glare monster and you sold it , and now have it again, because it’s not a glare monster and it’s made better, because it’s made in Germany not Portugal, oh wait a minute it’s made in Austria. Wow Im getting a headache.

Maybe it’s an imaginary headache and I’m really in a hospital somewhere (maybe Germany) in a coma having this convoluted bad dream thinking I’m in Portugal reading a Birdforum post. Or I’m trapped in the twilight zone. 😯.

Happy Easter.

 

[Paultricounty]

"IF Apple supervises the production very closely, you will get a high quality iPhone, but that doesn't always happen."

My point is Leica is not supervising the production in Portugal as well as they should, unless my first "lemon" Noctivid was just a poor sample. It is possible. I believe there was another member that mentioned he had to have his dealer hand pick a Portuguese made Noctivid to get a smooth focuser, whereas, the German made Noctivids had noticeably smoother focusers. Has anybody else had a bad experience with a Portuguese made Leica? My first Noctivid from Portugal was a PPOS.

Shouldn’t you also be asking others who have had issues with German ones as well? Or do you only want to hear about the Portuguese made issues?

 

[[email protected]]

Shouldn’t you also be asking others who have had issues with German ones as well? Or do you only want to hear about the Portuguese made issues?

Dennis, I’m confused because your getting rid of it for the SFL because the Noc has to much glare. And you went back to the Habicht because it too has to much glare, because it had to much glare as a glare monster and you sold it , and now have it again, because it’s not a glare monster and it’s made better, because it’s made in Germany not Portugal, oh wait a minute it’s made in Austria. Wow Im getting a headache.

Maybe it’s an imaginary headache and I’m really in a hospital somewhere (maybe Germany) in a coma having this convoluted bad dream thinking I’m in Portugal reading a Birdforum post. Or I’m trapped in the twilight zone. 😯.

Happy Easter.

I went back to a 8x32 Zeiss Conquest HD for the smaller size and weight for when I want a roof prism, and it handles glare pretty good. I will take a look at the SFL 8x40 when it comes out, but I seriously don't think it will be worth $1K over the Conquest which is lighter and smaller and since it has the same transmission as the SFL of 90% just as bright in the daytime. I will definitely try an SFL though.

 

[CharleyBird]

Denco, in a few months you've gone from loving a £2.5k binocular to a £0.8k binocular. Bit of a compromise being made somewhere.

Regarding Leica, one would make an educated guess that Leica transferred all their machinery and tooling, as well as continuing unaffected their parts sources and expertise. In a blind test you'd have as much chance telling the difference between MIG/MIP as I would differentiating a NewYork from a Hamburg built Steinway.

 

[[email protected]]

Denco, in a few months you've gone from loving a £2.5k binocular to a £0.8k binocular. Bit of a compromise being made somewhere.

Regarding Leica, one would make an educated guess that Leica transferred all their machinery and tooling, as well as continuing unaffected their parts sources and expertise. In a blind test you'd have as much chance telling the difference between MIG/MIP as I would differentiating a NewYork from a Hamburg built Steinway.

I decided to go smaller with an 8x32 in a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32. None of the roofs I have tried, including the alpha's that cost $2.5K approach the optics of my Habicht's in brightness or 3D, so I see no reason for an alpha roof. I may try the Zeiss SLF when they come out for the size and weight. I really like Zeiss roof prisms. They are one of the sharpest on-axis binoculars I have seen. That is why I like the Conquest HD 8x32. I bought a Sightron Blue Sky 8x32 for $100 that there has been so many long threads on, and at first I liked it. It had good build quality, and it seemed to have good optics for the price. I had been using a Zeiss Terra 8x25 compact when I ride my bike down the Poudre River Trail and I see many Great Blue Herons and Bald and Golden Eagles. I really enjoyed the view through the Terra's. I was amazed how sharp and clear they were for a compact, and I picked them up for $250 NIB on eBay. The last time I went down the trail, I took my Sighton's because I figured they would be better than the Terra because of the bigger 32 mm aperture, but they weren't. The Eagles and the Heron's were not nearly as clear and sharp as through the Zeiss, and I didn't enjoy the view nearly as much. The birds were not as much alive or real as they were through the Zeiss. When I watched the Heron with the Terra's I could see his dinosaur like eyes as he stood on a log peering around for fish underwater and the Bald Eagles were absolutely stunning sitting on a tree. For $150 more, the Terra's gave me a much more enjoyable view of the birds I was observing, and so I returned the Sightron's. I guess that is why we buy better binoculars because you get a more enjoyable view of the bird. It surprised me how good the Terra's are for an 8x25 compact. I really think the new SFL 8x40 will be a great binocular, but I don't know if it will be $1K better than the Conquest HD 8x32 in the daytime. It will have an advantage in low light, but in the daytime I don't think so outside of eye placement, and the 8x32 is already pretty good.

 

[Paultricounty]

I decided to go smaller with an 8x32 in a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32. None of the roofs I have tried, including the alpha's that cost $2.5K approach the optics of my Habicht's in brightness or 3D, so I see no reason for an alpha roof. I may try the Zeiss SLF when they come out. I really like Zeiss roof prisms. They are one of the sharpest on-axis binoculars I have seen. That is why I like the Conquest HD. That may be true about a blind test, but my Noctivid 8x42 that was MIP was not the quality of my Noctivid 8x42 that was MIG. The MIP sample had a poor focuser, poorer quality armour and sloppy, sticky eye cups. I returned the MIP Noctivid, but it could have been a bad sample. I also had a MIP Leica Ultravid 8x20 that was not the quality I have come to associate with Leicas. I have a Leica Trinovid BN 8x32 MIG, and it too is perfect. They are probably all just bad samples, but that was my experience.

At this point I’d have to agree with you 100%, you keep getting bad samples. And I think you should tap out and give up all together and stay away from anything MIP. That will solve two issues, one where we won’t see you posting that MIP is not as good as MIG (which we all know has been proven not to be true) and second less posts by you, insulting Portuguese manufactured binoculars and insulting the people who have disagreed with you because of your conclusions from one or two bad samples.

And now your left with the Habicht glare monster and the maybe German made conquest with the less than perfect plastic eyecup issues. 🙄

Happy Easter

 

[CharleyBird]

I decided to go smaller with an 8x32 in a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32. None of the roofs I have tried, including the alpha's that cost $2.5K approach the optics of my Habicht's in brightness or 3D, so I see no reason for an alpha roof. I may try the Zeiss SLF when they come out for the size and weight. I really like Zeiss roof prisms. They are one of the sharpest on-axis binoculars I have seen. That is why I like the Conquest HD 8x32. I bought a Sightron Blue Sky 8x32 for $100 that there has been so many long threads on, and at first I liked it. It had good build quality, and it seemed to have good optics for the price. I had been using a Zeiss Terra 8x25 compact when I ride my bike down the Poudre River Trail and I see many Great Blue Herons and Bald and Golden Eagles. I really enjoyed the view through the Terra's. I was amazed how sharp and clear they were for a compact, and I picked them up for $250 NIB on eBay. The last time I went down the trail, I took my Sighton's because I figured they would be better than the Terra because of the bigger 32 mm aperture, but they weren't. The Eagles and the Heron's were not nearly as clear and sharp as through the Zeiss, and I didn't enjoy the view nearly as much. The birds were not as much alive or real as they were through the Zeiss. When I watched the Heron with the Terra's I could see his dinosaur like eyes as he stood on a log peering around for fish underwater and the Bald Eagles were absolutely stunning sitting on a tree. For $150 more, the Terra's gave me a much more enjoyable view of the birds I was observing, and so I returned the Sightron's. I guess that is why we buy better binoculars because you get a more enjoyable view of the bird. It surprised me how good the Terra's are for an 8x25 compact. I really think the new SFL 8x40 will be a great binocular, but I don't know if it will be $1K better than the Conquest HD 8x32 in the daytime. It will have an advantage in low light, but in the daytime I don't think so outside of eye placement, and the 8x32 is already pretty good.

Dennis,
I've tried very few 8x32, but going only on what I read, this (older yet new) Nikon HG-L is tempting:

Camera In The Post Nikon 8x32 HG L High Grade Binoculars

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis,
I've tried very few 8x32, but going only on what I read, this (older yet new) Nikon HG-L is tempting:

Camera In The Post Nikon 8x32 HG L High Grade Binoculars

The Nikon 8x32 HG-L was a very good binocular and was an alpha when it came out. It has a little CA on the edges if you are sensitive to CA, and they are a little heavy compared to the newer stuff, but the build quality and focuser are top notch. I think that price is a little high. I would think they should be about $600 to $800 USD.

Nikon HG L 8x32 DCF - binoculars review - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com

 

[gweller]

I agree that one sample is not enough to decide if MIG is better than MIP. I had Statistics in college. It was boring.

That would explain a lot.......

 

[CharleyBird]

The Nikon 8x32 HG-L was a very good binocular and was an alpha when it came out. It has a little CA on the edges if you are sensitive to CA, and they are a little heavy compared to the newer stuff, but the build quality and focuser are top notch. I think that price is a little high. I would think they should be about $600 to $800 USD.

Nikon HG L 8x32 DCF - binoculars review - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com

I was thinking of the HG-L as suitable more in terms of your sensitivity to glare.

 

[[email protected]]

I was thinking of the HG-L as suitable more in terms of your sensitivity to glare.

Actually, the Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32 which I have handles glare a little better than the older Nikon HG-L 8x32.

 

[CharleyBird]

Do you actually have them both to compare side by side?
Because I've read a field test which found the opposite to be true.
They are both well respected for glare control of course.

 

[dorubird]

I've tried very few 8x32, but going only on what I read, this (older yet new) Nikon HG-L is tempting:

HG L 8x32 is a pair of binoculars with extremely robust mechanics. Optically it's surprisingly good. It is resistant to glare or gosting. The eyepieces are very comfortable, practically a pair of binoculars that you don't feel interposed between you and reality. The only downside is that it has some chromatic aberrations, and it is very heavy for a 8x32 class binoculars (700g). Compared to the newer Nikon HG 8x30 it has lower contrast, lower visual field of view 7.8 degrees, but with 100% clarity of FOV. Nikon HG 8x30 has only 80% but with FOV 8.3 degrees

 

[Paultricounty]

I decided to go smaller with an 8x32 in a Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32. None of the roofs I have tried, including the alpha's that cost $2.5K approach the optics of my Habicht's in brightness or 3D, so I see no reason for an alpha roof. I may try the Zeiss SLF when they come out for the size and weight. I really like Zeiss roof prisms. They are one of the sharpest on-axis binoculars I have seen. That is why I like the Conquest HD 8x32. I bought a Sightron Blue Sky 8x32 for $100 that there has been so many long threads on, and at first I liked it. It had good build quality, and it seemed to have good optics for the price. I had been using a Zeiss Terra 8x25 compact when I ride my bike down the Poudre River Trail and I see many Great Blue Herons and Bald and Golden Eagles. I really enjoyed the view through the Terra's. I was amazed how sharp and clear they were for a compact, and I picked them up for $250 NIB on eBay. The last time I went down the trail, I took my Sighton's because I figured they would be better than the Terra because of the bigger 32 mm aperture, but they weren't. The Eagles and the Heron's were not nearly as clear and sharp as through the Zeiss, and I didn't enjoy the view nearly as much. The birds were not as much alive or real as they were through the Zeiss. When I watched the Heron with the Terra's I could see his dinosaur like eyes as he stood on a log peering around for fish underwater and the Bald Eagles were absolutely stunning sitting on a tree. For $150 more, the Terra's gave me a much more enjoyable view of the birds I was observing, and so I returned the Sightron's. I guess that is why we buy better binoculars because you get a more enjoyable view of the bird. It surprised me how good the Terra's are for an 8x25 compact. I really think the new SFL 8x40 will be a great binocular, but I don't know if it will be $1K better than the Conquest HD 8x32 in the daytime. It will have an advantage in low light, but in the daytime I don't think so outside of eye placement, and the 8x32 is already pretty good.

I have to agree with you about the brightness of the Habicht’s as well as the 3D effect. I always get a kick out of using them for a little while. I’ve come to the conclusion as a birding or observational tool that they are lacking in many ways for serious long term (all day) viewing. The 3D effect is only very noticeable at certain distances and not so much better than some good roofs that don’t go the route of flat field (Leica for one).

The Habicht has a relatively small sweet spot compared to many high quality roofs as well as eyebox/comfort levels. Let’s not even discuss the edge fall off, which is not great. A good high quality alpha has that perfect raise to the eye and your right there (fast) and that quick snap into focus with beautifully smooth geared focusers that are just a pleasure to use all day long. As opposed to the blister you would get on your finger doing that all day long with a Habicht.

If not doing a side by side for brightness a good alpha roof is just leaps ahead and more enjoyable to use as a optic tool than the Habicht. You’ll come around soon and get yourself a nice Alpha roof maybe an EDG. Or something else not made in Portugal.

Happy Easter.

 

[[email protected]]

I have to agree with you about the brightness of the Habicht’s as well as the 3D effect. I always get a kick out of using them for a little while. I’ve come to the conclusion as a birding or observational tool that they are lacking in many ways for serious long term (all day) viewing. The 3D effect is only very noticeable at certain distances and not so much better than some good roofs that don’t go the route of flat field (Leica for one).

The Habicht has a relatively small sweet spot compared to many high quality roofs as well as eyebox/comfort levels. Let’s not even discuss the edge fall off, which is not great. A good high quality alpha has that perfect raise to the eye and your right there (fast) and that quick snap into focus with beautifully smooth geared focusers that are just a pleasure to use all day long. As opposed to the blister you would get on your finger doing that all day long with a Habicht.

If not doing a side by side for brightness a good alpha roof is just leaps ahead and more enjoyable to use as a optic tool than the Habicht. You’ll come around soon and get yourself a nice Alpha roof maybe an EDG. Or something else not made in Portugal.

Happy Easter.

I have three nice roofs for everyday birding. A Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32, Leica Trinovid BN 8x32 and a Zeiss Terra 8x25. I agree the Habicht is not the best overall birding tool for most people, but it is unmatched for brightness and 3D effect. I don't care for the "Pie Plate" flat view of the alpha roofs anymore. I don't really see any EDG's in my future anymore. I had plenty of them. I think they are getting a little long in the tooth and Nikon doesn't support them or fix them, and they are a little heavy and big for their aperture size. I may pick up a Zeiss SFL 8x40 when they come out to see how it compares with the Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32.

 

[dorubird]

Porro binoculars have a much more pronounced 3D effect than roof binoculars but unfortunately they are not so resistant to shocks. That's why porro binoculars are like a niche tools that you need to use with even more care than roof binoculars. Even if they are water resistant and have armor, such as the Habicht series, they do not excel in shock resistance and coming out collimation more quickly than roof one. The roof systems are more resistant to shocks and are more versatile when used on a variety of terrains and conditions without causing such a problems. Habicht, Nikon E2 are binoculars that are more for static with fixed point of view than climbing, crawling or running with them. For example, porro binoculars are good to use at home in the garden sitting at the table, or in the captain's cabin, or to have it in your backpack and, from time to time, to take it out only when you make a stop or you have reached a peak, etc.. It is true that in those moments you will be rewarded with a much more spectacular 3d image than a roof. But this porro bino it is not to have it around your neck all the time in intense activities. When you go out on the field, and you have a more active style the roof binoculars are much more versatile (compact, durable, easy etc.). Of course, this is not a rule, these are my opinions. It depends on the style of each one: some are more active, others are more static. I also have porro binoculars and roof binoculars, and I use them with pleasure depending on the mood and circumstances. But if I were forced to have a single pair of binoculars this would be a roof one, because covering more general applications.

 

[Paultricounty]

I have three nice roofs for everyday birding. A Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32, Leica Trinovid BN 8x32 and a Zeiss Terra 8x25. I agree the Habicht is not the best overall birding tool for most people, but it is unmatched for brightness and 3D effect. I don't care for the "Pie Plate" flat view of the alpha roofs anymore. I don't really see any EDG's in my future anymore. I had plenty of them. I think they are getting a little long in the tooth and Nikon doesn't support them or fix them, and they are a little heavy and big for their aperture size. I may pick up a Zeiss SFL 8x40 when they come out to see how it compares with the Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32.

I was specifically speaking of true hi-end alpha glass with that bright sparkle, not like the roofs you mentioned. I hear you about Nikon possibly not servicing EDG’s , but not the end of the world. If I’m not mistaken the EDG’s are right in there in weight (27oz) like most high quality 42’s and just a few oz more than those Zeiss (not sure where there made) conquests. I wonder if the eyecups were made in China, hmmm.
I can understand why you are so taken with the brightness of the Habicht’s considering the dark BN’s and the darker Terra’s (unfortunately definitely not Portugal) 🤪.

Have you really tried the EDG’s , is it possible it was some other Nikon you were talking about. My EDGs are small for a 42. Smaller than Ultravid 42’s and much smaller (real long in the tooth) 42 Habicht’.s. 😄

Happy Easter.

 

[tenex]

Even if they are water resistant and have armor, such as the Habicht series, they do not excel in shock resistance and coming out collimation more quickly than roof one.

Why? How does their method of collimation differ from roofs? I just find this counterintuitive, always hearing about the finer tolerances involved in manufacturing roof-prism models. I would have expected Porros to be simpler and therefore more robust.

If not doing a side by side for brightness a good alpha roof is just leaps ahead and more enjoyable to use as a optic tool than the Habicht. You’ll come around soon and get yourself a nice Alpha roof maybe an EDG. Or something else not made in Portugal.

I have to agree about the Habicht... beautiful in a way, but even an E2 is so much friendlier to use in the field.

I see that what are presumably the last of the EDGs are still for sale in Japan. It's an interesting and distinctive optical design, with fewer and thicker elements than competitors. Do they have the same coatings and reddish color cast that SEs did, and E2s before 2017? Is their "field flattener" similar to Swarovision, sharp to the edge but with a subtle softening before that, or just a later onset of curvature?

... And back to the thread topic, it was interesting to see a recent post here wanting to identify a mid-1970s Trinovid 7x35: the ocular read E. LEITZ GMBH WETZLAR, but the rubber armor was stamped MADE BY LEITZ PORTUGAL. That has a long (and honorable) history.

 

[dorubird]

Why? How does their method of collimation differ from roofs? I just find this counterintuitive, always hearing about the finer tolerances involved in manufacturing roof-prism models. I would have expected Porros to be simpler and therefore more robust.

Indeed, the optical tolerances are finer in manufacturing roof prisms glass and the manufacturing costs are higher. But this does not mean that they are more sensitive to shocks in comparration with porro prism. Mechanically the roof binoculars are more compact and more resistant. The porro binoculars have a simpler optical construction with much bigger prism that making the mechanics more exposed, instead they are easier to manufacturing and service than roof one.
So, Porro binoculars have simpler optics with more complex mechanics, and roof binoculars have more complex optics with simpler mechanics

 

[[email protected]]

Do you actually have them both to compare side by side?
Because I've read a field test which found the opposite to be true.
They are both well respected for glare control of course.

I did when I compared them. I don't have the Nikon HG-L 8x32 now, but I still have the Conquest HD. The Conquest HD is very good for glare control. Allbinos ranks the Conquest HD higher than the HG-L.

Nikon HG L 8x32 DCF - binoculars review - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com

Carl Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32 - binoculars review - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com