Pipit for discussion (4 Viewers)

[Mike Pennington]

James,

http://www.fyldebirdclub.org/warton_pipit_page.htm is a good reference, as I've previously said on BF.

Regards,

Stephen.

I second this, having finally paid attention and gone and had a look. Some absolute corkers here and my apologies for even suggesting that the Warton pipits were not gen!

The Rockit with a huge amount of pale grey on the second outermost tail feather is interesting as I am not someone who believes that grey and white can be consistently distinguished in the field.

 

[Mike Pennington]

Having looked at the photos, I feel that the March shots are of a littoralis - it certainly looks nearly identical to the birds we are seeing over here at the moment. As for the November photos, well my gut reaction was that it is a Water Pipit and, therefore the two bird theory is alive and well!

It's not the best Water Pipit ever is it?

But it does seem to have sparsely streaked flanks and some pure white on the second outermost tail feather, while I can't see the green-olive on th rump on my monitor. Along with the winter shots (and the bird is ringed) which look like Water Pipit, I would agree with the ID as Water (I'm sure the Lancashire committee will be so relieved !!!).

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

I would agree with the ID as Water (I'm sure the Lancashire committee will be so relieved !!!).

Mike,

Given that both Water and Scan Rock have come off our description lists because they are both too frequent (thanks to the Warton Waters) strictly speaking it isn't a committee issue. Birds are generally published as submitted.

Regards,

Stpehen.

 

[Binocularface]

Yes, there is some evidence they are increasing over here too. Aside from the Warton birds Mike refers to they have been seen further north at the same North Cumbrian site three years on the bounce now.

Regards,

Stephen.

It may be worth pointing out that the Water Pipit records in North Cumbria that Stephen refers to are not wintering birds. These birds have only been recorded during early Spring and their occurence generally coincides with Meadow Pipit/White/Pied Wagtail passage.

 

[Nutcracker]

It may be worth pointing out that the Water Pipit records in North Cumbria that Stephen refers to are not wintering birds. These birds have only been recorded during early Spring and their occurence generally coincides with Meadow Pipit/White/Pied Wagtail passage.

Very strange . . . what would they be doing heading towards Scotland / Iceland ???

Have to admit, that makes me very dubious

 

[Jane Turner]

There are good Wapits at Warton, just like there are good Wapits at Neston (even thought I can't see the blighters). Can't speak for lancs, though there were some pics that we discussed previously that I regard as dubious/not safe. I do think that lots of people go to both sites expecting to see Wapit and do.... even if they didn't if that makes sense. I do know that virtually no Rock pipits get reported from Neston, despite them hugely out-numbering Wapits

/sermon!

And no, though there are call differences, I would'nt accept one I'd seen myself on call only.

 

[Jane Turner]

Oh and having looked at the east Lancs bird... I'd not be having that as a safe spinoletta! The autumn pics look more a little convincing than the spring ones... which look like a classic littoralis to me. and this pic (mid)

http://www.eastlancashirebirding.net/images/WaterpipitCantClough04Nov04.jpg

shows NO wedge in the second outer TF... my rule of thumb is that having one (big clean white wedge) rules out Rockit, not having one may not rule out Wapit

As I said before, the boundary twixt spin and litt is as muddy, if not more so, as that between petrosus and litt

 

[Darrell Clegg]

shows NO wedge in the second outer TF... my rule of thumb is that having one (big clean white wedge) rules out Rockit, not having one may not rule out Wapit

As I said before, the boundary twixt spin and litt is as muddy, if not more so, as that between petrosus and litt

Jane - here are a couple of low res images of a known littoralis The tail is in moult and p5 can just be seen regrowing.

Absolutely agree about the boundaries between the species.

Darrell

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

And no, though there are call differences, I would'nt accept one I'd seen myself on call only.

The problem is that with a Water Pipit behaving like they should classically you can struggle to get more than views of size, shape and call as it pings off for a few hundred feet. I think if you tramped up and down the ditch a few times the welfare of the bird would have to come first and submit as a possible Wapit on call (if you now the difference) and habitat preference. Of course in counties where it is a description bird a rejection would presumably then result...

 

[Nutcracker]

Boundary between spinoletta and littoralis is muddy, and the boundary between littoralis and petrosus is rocky . . . :king:

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

Boundary between spinoletta and littoralis is muddy, and the boundary between littoralis and petrosus is rocky . . . :king:

Not bad...

 

[Nutcracker]

The problem is that with a Water Pipit behaving like they should classically you can struggle to get more than views of size, shape and call as it pings off for a few hundred feet

They're not always like that - I've had Wapits on the breeding grounds down to 2m range, coming for crumbs at alpine chalets. As tame as or tamer than any Ropit, even the ones at Seahouses harbour (local breeding petrosus, 3m closest when they come for crumbs)

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

They're not always like that - I've had Wapits on the breeding grounds down to 2m range, coming for crumbs at alpine chalets.

Any of them squeak with Cumbrian accents??

 

[Jane Turner]

Nay lad!

 

[Nutcracker]

Any of them squeak with Cumbrian accents??

No idea what Bulgarian with a Cumbrian accent sounds like!

 

[lou salomon]

No idea what Bulgarian with a Cumbrian accent sounds like!

romanians came 1 m close but they had transilvanian accent.

 

[Jacques VH]

Wich places are good to look at the birds in the neigberhoud of Lissabon.
Welke belangrijke vogelwaarnemingsplaatsen zijn er in de buurt van Lissabon
Jacques VH
Ik bezoek Lissabon van 29/3 tot 5/4/2005
I'm visiting Lissabon end 3/2005

 

[Binocularface]

Hi

As there are so many Pipit experts here I thought I would post some (not so good quality) pictures for you perusal. Any thoughts?

Regards
Tristan

 

[Nutcracker]

Hi

As there are so many Pipit experts here I thought I would post some (not so good quality) pictures for you perusal. Any thoughts?

Regards
Tristan

#2 and #5 could perhaps be Wapits, but I think I'll be conservative and call them all littoralis Ropits

 

[Nutcracker]

Wich places are good to look at the birds in the neigberhoud of Lissabon.
Welke belangrijke vogelwaarnemingsplaatsen zijn er in de buurt van Lissabon
Jacques VH
Ik bezoek Lissabon van 29/3 tot 5/4/2005
I'm visiting Lissabon end 3/2005

Welcome to Birdforum!

Unfortunately I don't know anything about birding in Lisbon, maybe someone else can help