What if you like the SFL 8x40 but don't have the budget for it? (1 Viewer)

[Canip]

What if you like the Zeiss SFL 8x40 but don't have the budget for it?

There are of course many answers to that question.

You could save money for a purchase later.

You could wait until good second-hand SFLs come onto the market; that can take a while, of course.

Or, a number of quality binoculars could be considered as alternatives to the SFL, all at considerably lower prices.

You could, for instance, have a look at the new Maven B1.2 8x42.

If you did, I bet you would be in for a big surprise!!!

Not only does the Maven B1.2 share a number of essential specifications with the SFL, I found its image characteristics – central sharpness, edge sharpness, CA correction, color tone – to be so strikingly similar that I reviewed the two binoculars side-by-side. And now I wonder whether the Maven has perhaps some of the same Japanese “genes” as the SFL.

Before you jump to conclusions about how crazy I might be, hear me out and judge me afterwards.

First, the data sheet for the SFL:

Objective diameter: 40 mm
Magnification: 8 x
Exit pupil: 5 mm
Eye relief (according to spec): 18 mm
Usable eye relief (measured from rim of folded eyecups): 15.5 mm
IPD (measured): 54 – 74 mm
RFOV(acc. to spec.): 8 degrees = 140 m
AFOV (measured, rounded): 60 degrees
Minimum focus distance (measured): 1.45 m
Focus type: CF (direction of rotation from close to infinity: > clockwise)
Degrees of rotation of focus wheel from 3 m to infinity (measured): 18o degrees
Range of diopter adjustment (acc. to spec.): +/- 4 dpt
Excess travel of focus wheel beyond infinity position (estimate): 6.5 dpt
Prism system: Schmidt-Pechan
Waterproof: yes
Weight (acc. to spec, without accessories): 640 g
Weight (measured, with eyepiece cover and strap): 710 g
Made in: Japan

Data sheet of the Maven B1.2:

Objective diameter: 42 mm
Magnification: 8 x
Exit pupil: 5.25 mm
Eye relief (according to spec): 18.1 mm
Usable eye relief (measured from rim of folded eyecups): 16 mm
IPD (measured): 56 – 74 mm
RFOV(acc. to spec.): 8 degrees = 140 m
AFOV (measured, rounded): 61 degrees
Minimum focus distance (measured): 1.40 m (!)
Focus type: CF (direction of rotation from close to infinity: > clockwise)
Degrees of rotation of focus wheel from 3 m to infinity (measured): 235 degrees
Range of diopter adjustment (acc. to spec.): +/- 3 dpt*
Excess travel of focus wheel beyond infinity position (estimate): 6 dpt*
Prism system: Schmidt-Pechan
Waterproof: yes
Weight (acc. to spec, without accessories): 760 g
Weight (measured, with eyepiece cover and strap): 847 g
Made in: Japanese components assembled in USA


I think the data speak for themselves. The biggest difference between the SFL and the Maven are:

• Maven’s external design is “traditional” and quite different from the SFL
• Maven weighs about 3 ounces more than the SFL and is bulkier
• Maven has a “traditional” position of the focus wheel close to the eyecups

Optical performance: in all relevant respects, the Maven matches the performance of the SFL or performs very similarly (caveat: I used MY eyes when I came to that conclusion!!). CA correction is equal: almost none in the center of the image, quite little further out. Stray-light control is again quite comparable, and both binos exhibit similar “minor double spikes” on very bright light sources.

Maven claims over 3 percent more transmission than the SFL (close to 94%).

Maven’s AFOV is a tiny bit larger (61 degrees) than the 60 degrees of the SFL (due to a slightly more pronounced pincushion distortion), but panning experience is very similar.

Edge sharpness is again very comparable, and so is sharpness on-axis (confirmed on the USAF with 4x and 6x boosters, mounted on separate tripods side-by-side, there was no winner or loser between the two).

Color rendition and image brightness is amazingly similar in both binoculars. Even the viewing experience is amazingly similar, despite the difference in weight, ergonomics and body shape. Switching back and forth between the two, often mounted side-by-side, I almost got the impression that the makers of the Maven tried to mimic the image of the SFL (but I am sure that’s not what happened!).

Mechanically, I have found no fault with the Maven: tight central hinge, smooth and precise focusing, just slightly slower than SFL, and comfortable screw-in eyecups with 4 positions (in, two intermediate click-stops, out). Nothing else to complain.

The B1.2 model recently replaced the previous B.1 model and has wider prisms, more FOV, more transmission, less weight and is shorter.

Am I saying that the Maven is “equal” or “ better” than the SFL? No!!

But at almost exactly half the price of the SFL (which puts in direct competition with something like a Conquest HD, Trinovid HD, or MeoStar), it is in my view very good value for money. Maven does not have the prestige and renommée of someone like Zeiss, but it offers unlimited warranty and has a good reputation regarding good customer service.

Regarding design, I like the color combination grey/orange; you may not, so the Maven comes in a number of other design configurations.

Canip

Disclaimer for the critical minds among the forum members: I have been a four time standard customer of Maven. Otherwise, I have no relationship whatever with them or they with me, and the above recommendation has not been shared with them and is for my own pleasure only and not for money/value, recognition or anything else from anybody.

 

[Ted Y.]

Excellent neutral comparison!

Is Maven B1.2 labeled 'Made in USA'? If so, I can import it without paying customs fee/duties.

 

[Canip]

Is Maven B1.2 labeled 'Made in USA'?

Not exactly.
The spec sheet says „Japanese components assembled in USA“.
But on the left tube, next to the serial number, there is a mark that reads „Mavenbuilt Japan“.
So I am not sure how this works for you.

 

[dries1]

Thanks Canip for that comparison, however regarding the Maven; I just can't get past the orange with light gray accents, just give to me in black.

 

[Bino Steve]

Check out Leupold.

 

[tenex]

Thanks Canip for that comparison, however regarding the Maven; I just can't get past the orange with light gray accents, just give to me in black.

(Most?) Mavens can also be had in black (or camo), and the fittings can be changed as well, as their "custom builder" shows.

 

[NDhunter]

Canip:
Your photo of these binoculars, show some vast differences. The construction is different, and so
are the specs. I suppose sometimes when we look at many binoculars, they all seem to be similar.
I wonder if that is what is happening.
Jerry

 

[Canip]

The gist of my message was (or should have been, sorry for not making that clear enough):
Look THROUGH both binos - the images are amazingly similar, even more so than when you compare the SFL with the SF.
Just wonder how that can be (both being Japanese is not sufficient explanation). Optics sourced from same company?

 

[Canip]

Check out Leupold.

Leupold makes some very good binoculars in my view. However, I don't know one where the image is as close to the SFL as the Maven's.

 

[PeterPS]

Leupold makes some very good binoculars in my view. However, I don't know one where the image is as close to the SFL as the Maven's.

Thanks for the review, I appreciate the effort you put in writing it. My interest in the SFL is small as I own better binos, but out of curiosity, can you use your index finger to focus the SFL? (given the position of the focuser quite far from the eyecups)

 

[Canip]

can you use your index finger to focus the SFL? (given the position of the focuser quite far from the eyecups)

Yes you can, you will just arrange your other fingers (both hands) in a slightly different fashion than with other binos

 

[tenex]

Look THROUGH both binos - the images are amazingly similar, even more so than when you compare the SFL with the SF.

Thanks for making this comparison, especially since one has to order a Maven directly to perform it. I wonder whether this similarity will hold for the 30mm models.

 

[StephenHampshire]

Thanks for making this comparison, especially since one has to order a Maven directly to perform it. I wonder whether this similarity will hold for the 30mm models.

Here in the UK, Maven is almost unheard of. They are available online from a few outlets (Amazon sometimes has them and another outlet that I assume imports them), but when I looked kust now the price is 65% of a SFL (8X42 compared to 8X40 £999 vs £1540) I've certainly never seen one in the flesh

 

[Ted Y.]

Maven B series can be ordered also here (in USA).
Same prices but 30 days for return and probably less $$$ for the transport.

 

[Bino Steve]

Double check the Maven warranty for outside of USA sales. I read in one of these forums posts it was limited warranty in UK.

 

[Scott98]

It's quite possible that Zeiss and Maven are getting their optics from the same factory in Japan. I love the wide variety of magnification and sizes with Maven, they cover almost everything. The "big three" have steadily reduced the breadth of their offerings over the years, almost completely abandoning 7x for example. And with Noctovid, SF, and NL Pure, they bailed on 50mm too. That is a disturbing trend and one that makes me likely to try one of Maven's offerings in the 6x or 7x range. Or their 30-ounce 50mm's

 

[AlphaFan]

Color rendition and image brightness is amazingly similar in both binoculars.

Hi Catnip. I’ve always enjoyed your comparisons and respect your honest reviews. Just have to say that with these two models in particular my eyes see things a bit differently - especially in regard to the quote above.

I’ve often questioned Maven’s claimed ~94% transmission rate — it leaves me uncertain if there are any true standards for this measurement across the industry. But a claimed 93.95 vs 90 is a rather significant difference. Don’t know how that is supposed to manifest or visibly translate into the image. However, while I find both the SFL and B1.2 sufficiently bright, to my eyes the SFL’s colors appear a bit more deeply saturated and natural. That was the primary reason I ended up returning the B1.2. Curiously, I found the image from the B6 10x50 more saturated and satisfying. Of course everyone’s eyes are a bit different and there sometimes are observed levels of variation from sample to sample.

You are certainly spot on that while the size of these units is similar there is a vast difference in their handling characteristics. Both are well built. The only issue I‘ve found with the Maven’s is the detents in the eyecups sometimes did not hold them firmly in place and the right one on my unit sometimes collapsed on its own. The SFL design also inspires me to hold the binocular a bit further forward on the barrels than with a more traditional design. I find it intuitive, but the jury is still out on whether I prefer the handling.

The SFL is a solid performer seemingly targeted toward the gap left by the 42mm SLC, but the Maven provides a great deal of performance and significant value for the price.

 

[Canip]

Just have to say that with these two models in particular my eyes see things a bit differently

Of course, that's to be expected, I am sure many will see it like you do. Appreciate your comments!

 

[AlphaFan]

Is Maven B1.2 labeled 'Made in USA'? If so, I can import it without paying customs fee/duties.

I remember meeting the Maven Team at a USA Sportsman’s Show early on and being very impressed with their initial product line. Was stunned to find their B2 9x45 offered some rather high grade Japanese glass and an AK prism design. Since they also offered US Military and First Responders a significant discount I just could not resist and bought a set. To this day I have not found better optics for that price - only complaint was they were a bit large/heavy (but that‘s how it is with most AK designs). At that time the Maven crew also gave a “wink and nod” that I would find their B Series surprisingly similar in optical quality to the Zeiss Conquest.

Also, unlike many other manufacturers Maven is not shy about declaring where their products are made or components sourced. (For the curious and/or documentation obsessed - Maven has a detailed FAQ page on their website that answers many of the questions asked here and on other optics related boards - a few excerpts follow):

Where are they built?

We use premium Japanese components for S, B, and RS Series optics. The S Series and B Series are assembled in a military standard (MIL-SPEC) facility in San Diego, and are then shipped to our headquarters in Lander, Wyoming where we inspect and test for quality assurance. The RS Series is assembled in Japan, and the C Series are assembled in the Philippines. Once assembled, they are shipped to our headquarters where each batch is sample-tested for quality assurance.

Where does your glass come from?

Because we sell direct to consumer, we’re not limited to the type of materials we can use. As a result, we use the best glass available in our optics. In our S, B, and RS Series optics, we utilize the best optical components available from Japan. In our C and CM Series, we use a combination of key Japanese components along with other optical elements from China, and the CS Series utilizes all Chinese components. In all of our optics we plan and build an overall optical system tuned to be the best performance available for the price.

Can you ship internationally?

We can ship anywhere in the world. To calculate shipping costs, go through the checkout process – you will see the product(s) you are ordering and the quoted rates for your country. Please be aware that our shipping does not include duties or taxes that may be imposed by your country on imports. Those fees and taxes will be your responsibility upon receipt. Also note that shipping times for International deliveries may be fairly long, so please be patient.

 

[Bino Steve]

I think Maven and Leupold both have the consumer in mind. It's all you can do to separate yourselves from the masses. When push comes to shove, and we are honest with ourselves, any decent bino is not that far off from another. Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Subaru.... gets the job done. You get the idea. Service , support and warranty are what makes or breaks a company these days.