I wouldn't worry about it. All you can do is give the best account you can of your experience. There's aways those that "know" more than you do regardless of topic and your amount/level of experience.
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zeiss sf 8x42 vs zeiss ht 8x42 (1 Viewer)
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MiddleRiver
Well-known member
I see two types of reviews on BF typically: one is the ‘everyone knows they suck’ and the other is a carefully worded description of nuances the author has experienced. I greatly value the latter, and often - with my own experience over time - gain an even deeper appreciation as I start to think ‘oh, that’s what they were referring to’.
hopster
Well-known member
This is wrong and misses the important issue - that the HT image has better colour and contrast than the SF as well as being brighter. If you want this as well as a rare transparency the HT will be the better choice.
Conndomat
United States of Europe
Hallo,
Richtig ist, dass der HT eine höhere Transmission hat, es gibt unterschiedliche Ansichten über die Farbe und den Kontrast.
Dir hat die SF nicht so gut gefallen, das ist in Ordnung, andere bevorzugen die SF, die auch in Ordnung ist, kein Grund zum Hahnenkampf.
Tatsache ist, dass Ferngläser immer sehr subjektiv sind und Meinungen nicht als allgemeine apodiktische Wahrheit angesehen werden sollten.
Richtig ist übrigens, dass sich die HT-Serie wie ihr Vorgänger, die FL, in erster Linie an Jäger richtete.
Nicht umsonst nannte Gerold Dobler „sein“ SF das beste Vogelfernglas, auch wenn es vielleicht etwas übertrieben erscheint, ganz unrecht hat er damit nicht.
Andreas
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NDhunter
Experienced observer
The Zeiss Victory HT was designed by hunters for hunters, and that is a good thing.
We all see things differently and can offer our opinions.
Jerry
John A Roberts
Well-known member
Hi Jerry,
I, and I’m sure others, would be interested to see any statement by Zeiss to that effect
(to ensure the purity of the design process, were non-hunters escorted from the room?)
Most would see the HT as the update to the long lasting and widely used FL line, specifically the A-K prism versions.
From what seems to be the first HT flyer, dated January 2013:
And more detail:
Later advertising restates the same points.
So it seems that both hunters and non-hunters are allowed to use HT’s
- - - -
And you do remember a very similarly worded claim that you made some time ago about Meopta?
See post #33 at: Meostar B1.1 plus
John
I, and I’m sure others, would be interested to see any statement by Zeiss to that effect
(to ensure the purity of the design process, were non-hunters escorted from the room?)
Most would see the HT as the update to the long lasting and widely used FL line, specifically the A-K prism versions.
From what seems to be the first HT flyer, dated January 2013:
And more detail:
Later advertising restates the same points.
So it seems that both hunters and non-hunters are allowed to use HT’s
- - - -
And you do remember a very similarly worded claim that you made some time ago about Meopta?
See post #33 at: Meostar B1.1 plus
John
NDhunter
Experienced observer
John:
I can remember well the discussion of the point, of the HT designed by hunters for hunters. It was hashed
over to some extent, and it bothered some on here. This advertising promotion came directly from Zeiss.
I don't have time to go back and look. Maybe you should, you seem to have the time.
Jerry
Edit to add: I found it. Some of the first announcements on BF were on the long thread from March 9, 2012,
"Victory HT ; New Zeiss Homepage."
I can remember well the discussion of the point, of the HT designed by hunters for hunters. It was hashed
over to some extent, and it bothered some on here. This advertising promotion came directly from Zeiss.
I don't have time to go back and look. Maybe you should, you seem to have the time.
Jerry
Edit to add: I found it. Some of the first announcements on BF were on the long thread from March 9, 2012,
"Victory HT ; New Zeiss Homepage."
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John A Roberts
Well-known member
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for that.
(the link is: Victory HT:New Zeiss Homepage )
After a quick look through:
In post #13 JabaliHunter included an initial press release from March 2012, seemingly intended to coincide with IWA
the premier annual European hunting exposition, that states (with bold added):
The All New VICTORY HT
Chester, 03/09/2012. CHESTER, Va., March 9, 2012 – Carl Zeiss Sports Optics introduces the all new VICTORY HT - the brightest super-premium binocular in the world, with near 95% light transmission. This is the first binocular ever specifically created by hunters to meet the unique needs of hunters in the field. Available in 8x42 and 10x42 models.
The brightest super-premium binocular in the world gives hunters a significant advantage by ensuring longer observation in the absolute lowest light conditions or in deep cover. This achievement requires new, proprietary SCHOTT High Transmission (HT) glass, a super-efficient Abbe-Koenig prism, and newly enhanced proprietary ZEISS T* multi-layer coating: only from Carl Zeiss Sports Optics.
The advanced ergonomics of the VICTORY HT are also unequalled. The large VICTORY HT focus wheel, part of the unique Comfort Focus system, is strategically placed toward the center of the binocular to remove strain on the focus finger and improve balance, creating a relaxed, comfortable grip – even with gloves. The forward placement of the focus knob in the Comfort Focus system also eliminates interference from the brim or bill of a hunter’s hat.
The VICTORY HT focus system itself is designed specifically for the hunter for precise, effortless use, providing useful focus speed while avoiding the finicky, drift-prone focus of competing models. It has a wide natural field, with the highest possible center resolution, and without the uncomfortable distortions or light loss of some flat-field competitors. This is a critical feature for hunters who need the sharpest image possible in order to make accurate assessments of game while glassing at extreme distances.
For durability and confidence in the field, Zeiss also created a high grade magnesium Double-Link Bridge: the first bridge to fully protect the focus wheel, eliminate the weak point found in competing models by connecting the bridge with two solid linked hinges, and facilitate a natural and almost effortless setting of the diopter control for the hunter’s individual vision. Intentionally separating focus and diopter controls also provides a smoother, more precise focus than any competing super-premium binocular.
"The Victory HT is designed for the extreme hunter who needs the highest level of optical performance and maximum durability,” said Michael A. Jensen, President of Carl Zeiss Sports Optics. “This is simply the brightest and the toughest hunting binocular ever made. It is an incredible product, and my challenge to any hunter is this: Do Not Buy any super-premium binocular until you Try the Victory HT – you will not be disappointed!”
The Victory HT will be on display for the first time in the United States at the NRA Annual Meetings and Exhibits in St. Louis, Missouri, April 13-15, 2012 and available in stores in the third quarter of 2012 . . .
- - - -
But a number of questions spring to mind, including:
Is the claim true, in the sense that no other binocular was previously created by hunters for their own use?
And was the HT really created as stated, or is it just PR department blurb in an announcement for a particular market?
e.g. by the time units are being shipped, there's no longer the unique hunting claims.
And crucially, how are the needs of hunters unique, compared to those of other binocular users?
The examples in the text are not particularly convincing. Which is predictably part of the discussion following the post.
(FWIW, Zeiss also released a complementary line of HT telescopic sights at the same time. So also unique?).
John
Thanks for that.
(the link is: Victory HT:New Zeiss Homepage )
After a quick look through:
In post #13 JabaliHunter included an initial press release from March 2012, seemingly intended to coincide with IWA
the premier annual European hunting exposition, that states (with bold added):
The All New VICTORY HT
Chester, 03/09/2012. CHESTER, Va., March 9, 2012 – Carl Zeiss Sports Optics introduces the all new VICTORY HT - the brightest super-premium binocular in the world, with near 95% light transmission. This is the first binocular ever specifically created by hunters to meet the unique needs of hunters in the field. Available in 8x42 and 10x42 models.
The brightest super-premium binocular in the world gives hunters a significant advantage by ensuring longer observation in the absolute lowest light conditions or in deep cover. This achievement requires new, proprietary SCHOTT High Transmission (HT) glass, a super-efficient Abbe-Koenig prism, and newly enhanced proprietary ZEISS T* multi-layer coating: only from Carl Zeiss Sports Optics.
The advanced ergonomics of the VICTORY HT are also unequalled. The large VICTORY HT focus wheel, part of the unique Comfort Focus system, is strategically placed toward the center of the binocular to remove strain on the focus finger and improve balance, creating a relaxed, comfortable grip – even with gloves. The forward placement of the focus knob in the Comfort Focus system also eliminates interference from the brim or bill of a hunter’s hat.
The VICTORY HT focus system itself is designed specifically for the hunter for precise, effortless use, providing useful focus speed while avoiding the finicky, drift-prone focus of competing models. It has a wide natural field, with the highest possible center resolution, and without the uncomfortable distortions or light loss of some flat-field competitors. This is a critical feature for hunters who need the sharpest image possible in order to make accurate assessments of game while glassing at extreme distances.
For durability and confidence in the field, Zeiss also created a high grade magnesium Double-Link Bridge: the first bridge to fully protect the focus wheel, eliminate the weak point found in competing models by connecting the bridge with two solid linked hinges, and facilitate a natural and almost effortless setting of the diopter control for the hunter’s individual vision. Intentionally separating focus and diopter controls also provides a smoother, more precise focus than any competing super-premium binocular.
"The Victory HT is designed for the extreme hunter who needs the highest level of optical performance and maximum durability,” said Michael A. Jensen, President of Carl Zeiss Sports Optics. “This is simply the brightest and the toughest hunting binocular ever made. It is an incredible product, and my challenge to any hunter is this: Do Not Buy any super-premium binocular until you Try the Victory HT – you will not be disappointed!”
The Victory HT will be on display for the first time in the United States at the NRA Annual Meetings and Exhibits in St. Louis, Missouri, April 13-15, 2012 and available in stores in the third quarter of 2012 . . .
- - - -
But a number of questions spring to mind, including:
Is the claim true, in the sense that no other binocular was previously created by hunters for their own use?
And was the HT really created as stated, or is it just PR department blurb in an announcement for a particular market?
e.g. by the time units are being shipped, there's no longer the unique hunting claims.
And crucially, how are the needs of hunters unique, compared to those of other binocular users?
The examples in the text are not particularly convincing. Which is predictably part of the discussion following the post.
(FWIW, Zeiss also released a complementary line of HT telescopic sights at the same time. So also unique?).
John
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John A Roberts
Well-known member
Hi Andy (post #168),
Well I always consider it a bonus if I've managed to irritate you.
- - - -
And for those who want a true measure of Andy in his own words, see posts #1,751 through 1,759 in this Ruffled Feathers thread:
https://www.birdforum.net/threads/ukraine.418912/page-88#post-4480121
(the comments also explain things said earlier in the thread).
John
Well I always consider it a bonus if I've managed to irritate you.
- - - -
And for those who want a true measure of Andy in his own words, see posts #1,751 through 1,759 in this Ruffled Feathers thread:
https://www.birdforum.net/threads/ukraine.418912/page-88#post-4480121
(the comments also explain things said earlier in the thread).
John
hopster
Well-known member
Hi Jerry,
I, and I’m sure others, would be interested to see any statement by Zeiss to that effect
(to ensure the purity of the design process, were non-hunters escorted from the room?)
Most would see the HT as the update to the long lasting and widely used FL line, specifically the A-K prism versions.
From what seems to be the first HT flyer, dated January 2013:
View attachment 1524764
And more detail:
View attachment 1524765
Later advertising restates the same points.
So it seems that both hunters and non-hunters are allowed to use HT’s
- - - -
And you do remember a very similarly worded claim that you made some time ago about Meopta?
See post #33 at: Meostar B1.1 plus
John
Well said Sir.
hopster
Well-known member
I have not been here long but I see that some people (perhaps if they got out of bed on the wrong side) seem to think that it's fine to be rude/dismissive without considering for a moment the experience level of others, try to bully others into accepting their opinion as fact, and to demean the perceptions of others that they see as below their level of knowledge and insight - as if they hold an unrivalled position and should not be challenged. I suppose that all internet forums have this to some extent, but I have noticed it more here for some reason.
Paultricounty
Well-known member
That’s funny June 6 23, some here were thinking the exact same thing about you. Your here a few weeks and already you’re being accusatory in a negative way because people correct in your misunderstandings with their knowledge and experience.
Well when you’re trying to tell someone your opinion of an optic, and your disagreeing with people who own or have extensively used the optic in question, that you haven’t tried , you will be challenged here.
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Agree! There is some surprisingly dark stuff going on here at times...
And Victory HT obviously stands for "Hunting Time" so I think we can settle that one
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MiddleRiver
Well-known member
I hunt for little birds in treetops, almost daily. Jes’sayin…
NDhunter
Experienced observer
Well said Sir.
Hop along:
You are correct, John was rude to me by even questioning my statement of facts about Zeiss and their
marketing. This has been proved above..............
Jerry
John A Roberts
Well-known member
Hi Jerry,
'Hop along' - well that certainly is rude of you!
But in contrast, my 'even questioning (your) statement' is rude. So what's going on there?
And as to your initial statement:
You seem to be strangely credulous, in your inability to distinguish between an advertised claim, as opposed to what's likely to be factual.
To paraphrase Bill Cook about claims in advertising: 'It doesn't have to be true, it just has to be believed'
. . . at least by some.
John
'Hop along' - well that certainly is rude of you!
But in contrast, my 'even questioning (your) statement' is rude. So what's going on there?
And as to your initial statement:
You seem to be strangely credulous, in your inability to distinguish between an advertised claim, as opposed to what's likely to be factual.
To paraphrase Bill Cook about claims in advertising: 'It doesn't have to be true, it just has to be believed'
. . . at least by some.
John
NDhunter
Experienced observer
John:
You don't seem to get it. That was the Zeiss promotional announcement of a new product. Simply that,
don't try to see more into than that. You seem to bring your know-it-all thing into your comment that it
was simply not true about that Zeiss announcement, "made by hunters for hunters".
Just because you did not know does not make it unbelievable.
Jerry
You don't seem to get it. That was the Zeiss promotional announcement of a new product. Simply that,
don't try to see more into than that. You seem to bring your know-it-all thing into your comment that it
was simply not true about that Zeiss announcement, "made by hunters for hunters".
Just because you did not know does not make it unbelievable.
Jerry
