Mis-handling of raptors by ringers/banders? (6 Viewers)

[FalconBirder]

I'm deeply concerned about two aspects of what I believe is mis-handling of birds of prey by ringers and banders.

Both methods are frequently illustrated on the internet and in publications, including in books and on websites of some so-called raptor experts.

The two methods are:

a) Holding a small raptor tightly in one hand with its legs, wings and tail all scrunched up together - see image one. This habit seems to be particularly prevalent in America.

The remiges and retrices are absolutely critical to any raptor's survival and I believe this method creates a high risk of lasting mechanical damage to these feathers due to the application of forces for which they are not designed to withstand.

b) Holding open the wing of a raptor by means of the tips of the outer remiges for a photograph - see image two.

For obvious reasons raptors have powerful flight muscles and apart from the procedure damaging the feather tips, if the bird is suddenly startled and pulls in its wing there is a very real risk of damaging the base of the feather (particularly if it is still growing) leading to it being 'dropped' prematurely and perhaps even failing to produce a replacement.

There are far better alternatives to both these methods and I believe ringers and banders should do their utmost to outlaw these practices.

Apart from the real risk to the individual raptors, I believe it also sends a very worrying message to non-ringers/banders that the welfare of the birds is secondary when it comes to capturing images of them.

What do others think please?

 

[rob stoff]

birds are remarkably robust and feathers surprisingly sturdy, these methods don't look nice but I doubt very much whether they do any harm.

Rob

 

[rozinante]

I believe it also sends a very worrying message to non-ringers/banders that the welfare of the birds is secondary when it comes to capturing images of them.

What do others think please?

I think in the cases as shown, that message is not only worrying but true.

 

[Black Wheatear]

Can I please appeal to the moderators to merge this thread with the impacts thread? Yet again we are subjected to another 'new' thread dealing with the same subject. I have every sympathy but this is essentially a forum for ringers and about ringing and not about running several threads dealing with the same issue where we spend our time answering the same questions over and over.

 

[FalconBirder]

Can I please appeal to the moderators to merge this thread with the impacts thread? Yet again we are subjected to another 'new' thread dealing with the same subject. I have every sympathy but this is essentially a forum for ringers and about ringing and not about running several threads dealing with the same issue where we spend our time answering the same questions over and over.

I beg to differ Black Wheatear.

This thread is NOT about general impacts, it's about two specific methods of what I consider to be mis-handling of birds by ringers/banders.

You state that this is a 'forum for ringers and about ringing' - I completely agree and can confirm that I'm a fully qualified and experienced bird ringer.

I'm seeking to raise awareness amongst ringers/banders with the aim of improving handling protocols and thus the welfare of raptors (and other birds).

I'm at a loss to understand why you feel 'subjected' by the contents of my thread - please don't feel obliged to answer but I'm hoping that others may wish to do so.

 

[vermivoracelata]

I have experience of dealing with raptors.

I have to say, without wanting to add too much 'fuel' to the proverbial fire, and, as I have said before, that non-banders/ringers, underestimate the robustness of birds. The first foto (and I hope that you have permission to post this foto) demostrates a way to both restrain the bird (from its talons, and also the birds wings) and demostrate the birds plumage without endangering the bird. The bird is not able to flap or strain itself.

I must also say that raptors, again, only in my experience, tend to be very docile in the hand. Largely, the only activity that you find from them during the banding process is from their talons.

I hesitate the perpetuate these discussions (as would BW I am sure), but as someone with experience, and years and years of it, I feel that I must stand up for myself and my colleagues.

Regards,

Peter

 

[FalconBirder]

I have to say, without wanting to add too much 'fuel' to the proverbial fire, and, as I have said before, that non-banders/ringers, underestimate the robustness of birds.

Peter

Your latter point may be so but rather than simply repeating what you've apparently already stated previously it would perhaps be more useful if you were to read the original text more carefully. As it is, your regurgitation is completely irrelevant because AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, I'm a fully qualified BTO A Permit holder with very many years of ringing experience.

The first foto (and I hope that you have permission to post this foto) demostrates a way to both restrain the bird (from its talons, and also the birds wings) and demostrate the birds plumage without endangering the bird. The bird is not able to flap or strain itself.

I'm flabbergasted that you're willing to defend this sort of handling - the fact that it restrains the bird is not in doubt, the issue I'm raising is the serious (and I believe unacceptable) risk that it poses to the most important feathers on the bird.

I hesitate the perpetuate these discussions (as would BW I am sure), but as someone with experience, and years and years of it, I feel that I must stand up for myself and my colleagues.

Frankly, I'm not interested in your previous discussions (unless of course you can demonstrate that both these specific issues have been covered elsewhere), I'm seeking other responsible ringers/banders to recognise two issues of bad practice and to stamp them out by means of peer pressure.

I intentionally posted my concerns on this Forum as I was expecting intelligent responses from other experienced raptor ringers/banders.

It's particularly disappointing to find that three of the four responses to date are from ringers/banders who seem completely disinterested in the issues raised but are just concerned with defending their activity regardless of the merits of the criticism.

 

[citrinella]

Peter

Your latter point may be so but rather than simply repeating what you've apparently already stated previously it would perhaps be more useful if you were to read the original text more carefully. As it is, your regurgitation is completely irrelevant because AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, I'm a fully qualified BTO A Permit holder with very many years of ringing experience.



I'm flabbergasted that you're willing to defend this sort of handling - the fact that it restrains the bird is not in doubt, the issue I'm raising is the serious (and I believe unacceptable) risk that it poses to the most important feathers on the bird.



Frankly, I'm not interested in your previous discussions (unless of course you can demonstrate that both these specific issues have been covered elsewhere), I'm seeking other responsible ringers/banders to recognise two issues of bad practice and to stamp them out by means of peer pressure.

I intentionally posted my concerns on this Forum as I was expecting intelligent responses from other experienced raptor ringers/banders.

It's particularly disappointing to find that three of the four responses to date are from ringers/banders who seem completely disinterested in the issues raised but are just concerned with defending their activity regardless of the merits of the criticism.

Don't worry, Falconbirder, your comments are being noted. Good to hear a ringer openly questioning practice. As a new trainee with no experience of handling raptors I have been reminded to consider techniques carefully. I will discuss this with experienced trainers in my group and establish my practice bearing all this in mind.

I am sure plenty other ringers will be concerned at your comments and will go away and review the situation and their practice.

Mike.

 

[citrinella]

Can I please appeal to the moderators to merge this thread with the impacts thread? Yet again we are subjected to another 'new' thread dealing with the same subject. I have every sympathy but this is essentially a forum for ringers and about ringing and not about running several threads dealing with the same issue where we spend our time answering the same questions over and over.

What ? This is a completely different subject, a sensible attempt to discuss handling technique. Keep it separate, and please present and discuss evidence for and against the techniques described.

Mike.

 

[IanF]

It is a separate issue from the 'Impacts Thread'. This is a discussion of techniques. I'm sure the thread will be of interest to both ringers/banders as well as others. It's obvious from previous posts that opinions will vary - but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[FalconBirder]

I hesitate the perpetuate these discussions (as would BW I am sure), but as someone with experience, and years and years of it, I feel that I must stand up for myself and my colleagues.

Peter

If you are the Peter Fearon referred to on the weblink you posted then it's clear that you do have some reasonable experience - well done.

http://www.ausablebirdobservatory.org/about_aubo.html

However, one of the images published there (and copied below) regrettably shows another issue of bad practice.

The clips at the bottom of Pesola balances are very reliable but they're not foolproof.

When weighing passerines in a cone I was taught that you should ALWAYS hold your hand BELOW the cone, not above it.

Then if the clip fails the cone only drops a couple of centimetres before being caught safely.

Your technique risks the cone and the bird falling to the ground.

I appreciate that you may argue that you normally operate the good practice I suggest and that the camera caught a momentary lapse.

I sincerely hope this is the case but believe that experienced ringers who publish images should be rigorous to ensure that BEST PRACTICE is always depicted.

Best regards,

 

[FalconBirder]

It is a separate issue from the 'Impacts Thread'. This is a discussion of techniques. I'm sure the thread will be of interest to both ringers/banders as well as others. It's obvious from previous posts that opinions will vary - but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Thank you IanF for moderating this thread promptly and objectively - much appreciated.

The whole purpose of my posting was to illicit considered views from ringers/banders concerning the merits or otherwise of my position.

Patronising statements from individuals who haven't bothered to read the original text are frankly not welcome in this, or any other, debate.

 

[FalconBirder]

Don't worry, Falconbirder, your comments are being noted. Good to hear a ringer openly questioning practice. As a new trainee with no experience of handling raptors I have been reminded to consider techniques carefully. I will discuss this with experienced trainers in my group and establish my practice bearing all this in mind.

I am sure plenty other ringers will be concerned at your comments and will go away and review the situation and their practice.

Mike.

Many thanks for your comments Mike - it great to know that there are up and coming ringers out there who are hungry to learn.

My strategy when training was to go ringing with as many other ringers/banders as possible and to continually ask questions (and if necessary challenge them) on their actions and behaviour.

By doing this I gained an extremely wide range of different experiences so that I believe I was well placed to make an informed decision about how I wished to act when operating on my own.

Thanks again.

 

[KnockerNorton]

I have a little sympathy in that I hate these 'trophy shots', which is what the first 2 pics appear to be. The BTO (Ringing Manual etc) is clear in that such trophy photos are frowned upon and are counter-productive, and I note that all your photos so far have been of North American species and, presumably, North American ringers. Such posing with a ringing trophy is not part of ringing, and should be stamped out imo, unless there is a genuine educational reason for the photo to be taken.

But, as others have said, I think you're over-egging the pudding re the sensitivity of raptors to 'damage'. If their feathers were so critical that they couldn't cope with any defects at all, how do you think they cope when they're moulting and have lost half of them?

 

[deborah4]

Good to see some healthy 'self-analysis' of an aspect of ringing technique from Falcon Birder and Mike which can only bode well for impressions of the profession's profile on the non-ringing birding community.

how do you think they cope when they're moulting and have lost half of them?

Wasn't Falcon Birder referring to permanent damage? Also, if not, couldn't the impact be worsened anyway (yes impact) with loss due to ringing at certain times of the year - ie. vis a vis long distance Migrants and timing of 'natural' moults?

 

[FalconBirder]

But, as others have said, I think you're over-egging the pudding re the sensitivity of raptors to 'damage'. If their feathers were so critical that they couldn't cope with any defects at all, how do you think they cope when they're moulting and have lost half of them?

Hi Poecile

Many thanks for your thoughtful comments.

I have nothing against 'trophy shots' as you call them, in fact if such images are obtained appropriately they can provide a valuable scientific record.

I agree that raptors are able to cope with a certain level of defects in their feathers.

However, I'm sure you'll be aware that raptors (unlike ducks and geese, for example), moult their main feathers in pairs in very controlled and sychronised ways, thus minimising the negative impacts on their ability to fly well enough to capture prey.

But just becuase a bird can survive with a few broken feathers, surely that doesn't make it right for ringers/banders to be careless and mis-handle them does it?

There are other far safer ways to hold raptors so shouldn't responsible ringers/banders always opt for the best option?

 

[Iben]

Hi FalconBirder

First of all, let me say that I am a qualified ringer with A-licences in both Denmark and Catalonia. I have experience with handling birds ranging in size from Firecrest to Flamingo, yet my experience with handling raptors is limited to smaller species such as Sparrowhawk, Kestrel, and Lesser Kestrel. Some of these were caught in mist nets, whereas others (mostly chicks) were ringed at colonies/nest boxes.

I honestly believe that the first method you criticize is really not that harmful to the birds, as long as they are not held unnecessarily tight (which may well be the case in the photo you posted...). Like mentioned previously in the thread, it keeps them from flapping as well as from using their talons, and if you place the feathers carefully you won't damage them.

The other method is a different matter. I don't like holding ANY bird, be it a Reed Bunting or a Sparrowhawk, by the primaries, not even for a moment. There is always the risk that they may flap, and in that case you can damage the wing bones and muscles as well as the feathers. If I need to open the wing like shown in your picture, I always try to hold the bird at the carpal joint instead - it gives practically the same result, and you have a much better control of the wing. Having said that, I know many ringers who are happy to hold the birds like shown in your photo, and I have never seen them damage any birds by employing this method. The bird in your photo is a chick, and I don't want to judge on this particular situation, thus my comments are not directed specifically at this photo. Every ringer knows that each bird is different and reacts differently to being handled.

Finally, regarding the weighing technique, it looks to me like the ringer is sitting on a bench so that the bird will drop into his lap if the Pesola clip fails.

With best regards,

Iben

 

[FalconBirder]

Good to see some healthy 'self-analysis' of an aspect of ringing technique from Falcon Birder and Mike which can only bode well for impressions of the profession's profile on the non-ringing birding community.

Wasn't Falcon Birder referring to permanent damage? Also, if not, couldn't the impact be worsened anyway (yes impact) with loss due to ringing at certain times of the year - ie. vis a vis long distance Migrants and timing of 'natural' moults?

Thanks for your contribution deborah 4,

You're correct, I am concerned about the risk of permanent damage and also the fact that any ringer/bander induced damage should be avoided whenever possible.

You're also right that many raptors avoid or suspend their moulting cycles during migration which is exactly the time when most ringing/banding is done, so any damage (temporary or permanent) during this period may well have disproportionate negative impacts.

The bottom line is that there are perfectly adequate alternatives to both the methods I've illustrated, which are significantly safer.

Thanks again.

 

[Iben]

The bottom line is that there are perfectly adequate alternatives to both the methods I've illustrated, which are significantly safer.

Why don't you describe which methods you prefer? We might as well discuss pros and cons for those now we're at it...

With best regards,

Iben

 

[KnockerNorton]

Hi Poecile
I have nothing against 'trophy shots' as you call them, in fact if such images are obtained appropriately they can provide a valuable scientific record.

but they aren't the examples you've posted. You've posted 2 pics of people, who happen to be holding birds. Scientific shots don't need a gurning mug in them. Ego/trophy shots do.

However, I'm sure you'll be aware that raptors (unlike ducks and geese, for example), moult their main feathers in pairs in very controlled and sychronised ways,

Most birds moult in synchronised pairs. Ducks are geese are the exception rather than the rule, so there's nothing specialised about raptors in that sense, any more than a blackbird.

But just becuase a bird can survive with a few broken feathers, surely that doesn't make it right for ringers/banders to be careless and mis-handle them does it?

but you're making a big assumption here, in that what you claim to be 'mishandling' is actually that, and is causing damage. Have you any proof that handling as in your pics causes damage, and is therefore 'mishandling'? Without any evidence, you're just making a baseless assumption that you want others to accept as fact.

There are other far safer ways to hold raptors so shouldn't responsible ringers/banders always opt for the best option?

Again, without any evidence, you cannot say what method is safer. But also, in the photos you've posted, the only reason the birds seem to be being held as they are is for a trophy shot. So we've gone full circle: should you be campaigning for different handling methods or a stop to trophy shots that may be the only reason birds are held that way?