Buying a Nikon (1 Viewer)

[Adin 92]

Hi all,

As a new camera i am opting at the Nikon D 80 and The D 60. As a beginner for the slr`s i am quite doubtful for which is the easiest for starting to photograph birds. Any suggestions?

 

[pduxon]

Hi all,

As a new camera i am opting at the Nikon D 80 and The D 60. As a beginner for the slr`s i am quite doubtful for which is the easiest for starting to photograph birds. Any suggestions?

uhm if it was me I'd go for the d90. the sensor is the same/very similar to the d300.

of the two you suggest both have the same sensor but I believe Nikon have eked out a tiny improvement in image quality

d60 - pros. light, sensor cleaning mechanism (not perfect but helps)
d60 - cons. Only works with lens with built in focus. eg Nikon AFS, Sigma HSM and a few Tamron's. Only 3 focus points

d80 - pros . works with virtually all lens. 11 focus points.
d80 - cons. can blow highliights e.g. light clouds. no sensor cleaning

the d90 has all the pros of a d80 and provides much better high iso with none of the cons.

 

[Gentoo]

uhm if it was me I'd go for the d90. the sensor is the same/very similar to the d300.

of the two you suggest both have the same sensor but I believe Nikon have eked out a tiny improvement in image quality

d60 - pros. light, sensor cleaning mechanism (not perfect but helps)
d60 - cons. Only works with lens with built in focus. eg Nikon AFS, Sigma HSM and a few Tamron's. Only 3 focus points

d80 - pros . works with virtually all lens. 11 focus points.
d80 - cons. can blow highliights e.g. light clouds. no sensor cleaning

the d90 has all the pros of a d80 and provides much better high iso with none of the cons.

I agree with this

 

[BirderSean]

what about the D40??

 

[RJM]

I have the D40 and the D40 lens kit is an excellent starter dslr, especially at the current price. But it you want to take wildlife pics, the D60 might be better for the extra megapix as you will need to do some cropping. The AF motor lens issue is really NOT an issue any more. Lots of motorized AF choices available from Nikon and third parties now.

I also have the D90. Surprisingly, it really doesn't pics any better than the D40. I seldom use Liveview (despite the great LCD, Nikon Liveview has poor resolution when magnified) and have not found the video to be that useful yet. BUT it does some great usability enhancements and a better sensor for low light situations.

What makes both Nikons so great for newbies is the built-in onscreen help.

happy holidays,
Rick

 

[Gentoo]

I'd still pick the D90 over the D40. Higher pixel count for cropping was mentioned earlier, well the D90 is a 12mp just like the D300. Now if you shoot with everything at default, you may not notice much difference in quality. If you take advantage of the many tweaks and adjustments the D90 has to offer (basically the same as the D300), then you are really getting your money's worth.

Let me give you an example:

http://www.pbase.com/shonn/image/106434198

The day I shot that, it was mostly cloudy and rather dull, just a hint of reflection on the water. I cranked up the color saturation in a way that, between your choices mentioned here, is only available on the D90 (same as the D300).

http://www.pbase.com/shonn/image/106892422

The lighting this day in San Francisco was even worse! It was rather gloomy and very overcast. Normally these colors in the plumage can only be seen with our eyes in bright sunlight. They don't go away on cloudy days, our eyes just can no longer see them but the camera can. Not to mention if you shoot JPG, Active D-Lighting (which is different than D-Lighting), can often, though not always, replace the need for day fill flash which most birds tend to hate anyway.

Then there are the 11 vs 3 focal points that were mentioned earlier. It will be compatible with more lenses such as the non AF-S 300mm F/4 that I have which will be able to autofocus on the D90 as I believe it has the screw drive ( I only used it with AF-S lenses attached).

However if money is tight which in this economy it very well could be then the D40 isn't a bad choice. I recently sold mine though.

 

[Adin 92]

thanks to all!!

for the response. About the Nikon d 40 its a great camera and the price is more than worth it for a slr camera but for wildlife its a bit tricky for good photos so thats why i am going to choose the nikon D 80 and i found a good website with a great price!!

great photos Gentoo!!!

 

[RJM]

Why? Even the D60 is a better camera for birding than the D80. Active D-lighting is a big advantage as well as higher ISO3200 under telephoto low light conditions. Lighter/cheaper too!

cheers,
Rick

 

[Gentoo]

Why? Even the D60 is a better camera for birding than the D80. Active D-lighting is a big advantage as well as higher ISO3200 under telephoto low light conditions. Lighter/cheaper too!

cheers,
Rick

I'd have to agree, if the D90 isn't in your price range then the D60 would be better than the D80.

 

[pduxon]

i'm not so certain the d60 is the no brainer over the d80.

given the sensor is the essentially same there is no way I'd want to shoot 3200 with a d60.

as a general purpose camera then the d60 with the 18-55 vr kit makes good sense but for birding would you really only want 3 focus points?

I'm not saying the d60 is the wrong decision just its not as straight forward.

as a total aside what about a Fuji s5 pro? you can pick them up for the same price as a d80 these days.

Nikon F-Mount. yeah only 6mp but in reality more like 8. and absolutely superb build quality and colours.

yeah the buffer isn't great but its worth a consideration.

 

[seaspirit]

i'm not so certain the d60 is the no brainer over the d80.

I never looked at the D60 closely, but what I found a huge improvement by going from the D50 to the D80 (which is in a different league than the D60 in my opinion) is the feature to switch focus mode (C to S etc.) and exposure metering (spot center matrix) by pushing a designated button. To do this with the D50 one had to go into the menue and it took time to make those changes, very slow and not praticable. I imagine that the smaller Nikons along with a number of other features (Af drive, LCD status window) miss those buttons as well.

Right now I would go for a D90 (or D300), but with a limited budget a D80 would still not be out of the picture.

Ulli

 

[RJM]

i'm not so certain the d60 is the no brainer over the d80.

given the sensor is the essentially same there is no way I'd want to shoot 3200 with a d60.

But having the ISO3200 option could mean the difference between getting the shot or not. Who knows what future software may come along that will let you go back and clean up a noisy pic.

as a general purpose camera then the d60 with the 18-55 vr kit makes good sense but for birding would you really only want 3 focus points?

If you are shooting with an AF 300-600mm lens, sure more is better, especially if you shoot a bird in flight. But if you are digiscoping through a fieldscope either afocal with an AF lens or through +/- projection at focal lengths of 1500mm+ then one is all you get/need as the target is pretty much the only thing you see.

Fast shutter speeds are a very important factor for wildlife and a camera/sensor with better low-light performance and higher ISO range should be preferred to a lesser model.

cheers,
Rick

 

[pduxon]

But having the ISO3200 option could mean the difference between getting the shot or not. Who knows what future software may come along that will let you go back and clean up a noisy pic.

but since I don't know what will come I'll have to comment on what I know. I suspect that when such software is around it'll be as cheap to throw the body away and buy afresh.

If you are shooting with an AF 300-600mm lens, sure more is better, especially if you shoot a bird in flight. But if you are digiscoping through a fieldscope either afocal with an AF lens or through +/- projection at focal lengths of 1500mm+ then one is all you get/need as the target is pretty much the only thing you see.

a fair point. I assumed that the OP wasn't talking about digi-scoping. always a mistake I know but...

Fast shutter speeds are a very important factor for wildlife and a camera/sensor with better low-light performance and higher ISO range should be preferred to a lesser model.

cheers,
Rick

I don't disagree with this but....

does the d60 have better performance? it has better range the two are not the same.

I appreciate that Nikon are good at taking the same sensor and eking out performance improvements, we can see that in the d40. but I am not convinced that they have eked out THAT much of an improvment on the d80.

the d60 has the capability to go to ISO 3200 but as I said elsewhere there are compacts that can do that!! Anyway the two cameras (d60/d80) have the same same iso range 100-1600 + a boost to 3200.

I've snafued this quote from Thom Hogan on a comparison of the d40x and the d80

"The D40x seems to be very close to the D80 in acuity, though as you bump up the ISO value with noise reduction turned on, the D40x seems to lose a bit of detail that the D80 doesn't (but that detail comes at the expense of slightly more noise on the D80)."

Given we're still talking the same sensor on the d60 it is unlikely to be noise king, we're talking slight here.

as I say both cameras have strengths and weaknesses. I'm not saying its a mistake to buy a d60 just not a no brainer.

Indeed I suspect the d40 does better at high iso's.

you pay's your money....

 

[Adin 92]

I m still haven`t decided but from your feedback about d 60 my thoughtds are changing
to the nikon D 60 18-55mm (probably i will buy as for starting)


always thank you for the feedback

 

[rezMole]

Are you going to attach the camera to a scope and use it to digiscope? If not you will find you need a longer lens than the 18-55 - birds will have to be sat on you lap with a lens like that.

 

[seaspirit]

the d60 has the capability to go to ISO 3200 but as I said elsewhere there are compacts that can do that!! Anyway the two cameras (d60/d80) have the same same iso range 100-1600 + a boost to 3200.

............................

Indeed I suspect the d40 does better at high iso's.

Well, you can't compare noise levels of a compact camera with those of a SLR. The larger sensors used in SLRs will always be less noisy than a small compact sensor with similar pixel density.

Thus if comparing two SLRs with different pixel resolutions (D40 vs. D40x etc.) the one with less pixel on the chip will very likely also produce less noise at higher ISO for the same reason. One reason why HiRes full format SLRs were so eagerly anticipated by some.


Ulli

 

[Adin 92]

Are you going to attach the camera to a scope and use it to digiscope? If not you will find you need a longer lens than the 18-55 - birds will have to be sat on you lap with a lens like that.


Later i will get the tamron 70-300mm.Apart from birdwatching only i go with bird ringers (training) so i will have some close up pics

 

[Adin 92]

sry instead of quoting i made copy and paste

 

[pduxon]

Well, you can't compare noise levels of a compact camera with those of a SLR. The larger sensors used in SLRs will always be less noisy than a small compact sensor with similar pixel density.

yes I know that. my point is that the range is immaterial its how the sensor performs which is why I said that there are compacts with comparable ranges. just because a camera has the range doesn't mean it is usable.

make sense?

 

[Gentoo]

Are you going to attach the camera to a scope and use it to digiscope? If not you will find you need a longer lens than the 18-55 - birds will have to be sat on you lap with a lens like that.

Exactly! 18-55 is a low level wide angle to a very low telephoto lens. It's a lens you would use to capture a scene or perhaps a group of people. Certainly not a birders lens.