Is it a 'hooper' swan or a 'wooper' swan? (3 Viewers)

[David FG]

Well I have.

We clearly move in very different circles...

As previously stated, I've always prononunced the W but the dictionary says either way is ok (as it does whooping). I don't care too much as long as I get one on my local patch one day.

Now if your talking Scaup pronounced 'Scalp', now that's a different matter.

ps would Homer Simpson call it a 'Woo Hoo' per Swan ?

D'oh!

 

[Sancho]

Oh right, so you'd say Step-hen would you?

Stephen is just a hard "f"

Not so, Colin....the "ph" in "Stephen" is a voiced labial fricative...a "v". If it were unvoiced, it would be an "f" (as it is in many other languages..."Stefan", etc.).

 

[deborah4]

Well like Tim, I've been sitting here trying out various ways and come to this conclusion:

A 'W' on it's own is a hard 'Wuw' as in 'Wood', 'Went', 'Wish'
An 'H' on it's own is a hard 'Huh' as in 'house', 'Happy', 'Hot'

When the two are together as in 'Wh', imo it creates a completely different phonetic sound in the alphabet which is preceded phonetically by a soft almost silent blowing/whistling 'W' (like a small rush of outblown air from the lips) followed by an immediate heavier emphasis on the 'h'. Thus, the phonetic sound of 'Whales' is slightly different to the ear than 'Wales'. Its further influenced by the subsequent vowels. So, to me, the phonetic sound of Wooper and Hooper is different to 'Whooper' which has a combination of the 'Wh' - So I say neither 'W'ooper nor 'H'ooper but Whooper - but since I'm rather lazy it usually sounds like 'hooper'

 

[CAU]

Merriam-Webster's online dictionary gives no less than six different ways to pronounce "whoop" (several audio files are included):
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whoop

 

[Mouldy]

Lieutenant Pigeon did. Mouldy Old Dough.

Oi! leave me out of this...

By the way is dough pronounces doe or duff or even dow? :-O

 

[dantheman]

Oi! leave me out of this...

By the way is dough pronounces doe or duff or even dow? :-O

Hoo knows?? (Or cares . . .)

 

[Sancho]

Hoo knows?? (Or cares . . .)

I wonder if grammar and pronounciation excite such interest from us birders because it´s not that far from birding.....I mean it involves observation, evaluation, classification, categorisation. All that stuff that appeals to us in a borderline Asberger´s kind of way (and I mean no offence to Asberger´s condition people, I concur with the theory that most of us show traits). Or are we just geeks? (Suggestions for the origins of the word "geek", please?)

 

[dantheman]

I wonder if grammar and pronounciation excite such interest from us birders because it´s not that far from birding.....

Let's see. . .


. . . I think I've just spotted a Declined Adverb asleep in that word tree . . . and could that be a Conjugated Pronoun hiding in the undergrowth?? And hang on a mo, that LBJ, wow, a Literal Blended Juxtoposition . . . :eek!:

I must note these all down in my Etymological Yearlist Jotter at once . . . .

Mmmm, not totally convinced myself, or maybe so . . . ??!!

(And is a Geek a Greek with the pirate removed (no Arrrr . . .). In which case, Sancho, you're no geek)

 

[Sancho]

And is a Geek a Greek with the pirate removed

Oo-er, matron....

 

[dalecaldwell]

Belay that! Just go with the scientific name - Cygnus cygnus!

Dale

 

[dantheman]

Belay that! Just go with the scientific name - Cygnus cygnus!

Dale

Signus kinnus??

 

[gmax]

Not so, Colin....the "ph" in "Stephen" is a voiced labial fricative...a "v". If it were unvoiced, it would be an "f" (as it is in many other languages..."Stefan", etc.).

B (as you can see, a well deserved Guinness :t

 

[bitterntwisted]

Ah, I see the inevitable drift away from the original subject has begun. But, on the better late than never principle, this is what the Concise Companion to the Oxford English Dictionary (http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O29-WHSOUND.html) has to say about "wh":

"WH-SOUND. In phonetic terms, the voiceless counterpart of /w/. The distinction between /hw/ and /w/ in such pairs as whales/Wales and which/witch was once universal in English and is currently a matter of controversy and sometimes confusion. In Old English, h could precede l, n, r, w as in hlāf loaf, hnecca neck, hwa who, and was pronounced in each case. Only the /hw/ now survives, normal in IrE and ScoE, wide-spread in AmE and CanE, and common among older speakers of RP. The Old English written sequence hw was reversed to wh in the Middle Ages to align it with the other h-patterns (ph, th, ch, sh). In the process, an anomalous w was added in such words as whole (Old English hāl), whore (Old English hṓre), while whelk (Old English weoloc) acquired a superfluous h. In Older Scots and formerly in Northern English, the /hw/ sound was distinctively represented as quh: quhat what, quhilk which. In who, whom, whose, w rather than h has fallen silent. The presence of wh can cause spelling difficulties for speakers who do not distinguish /hw/ and /w/: *wen for when, *wheather for weather, *whent for went. Some speakers in England use /hw/ as a self-consciously ‘correct’ pronunciation in which over-compensation produces, for example, *the Prince of Whales."

Exactly!!!

The English people on here all say Hooper, and not Wooper, but NO-ONE says Wooper (except aforementioned beginners) It's the Scots and Irish who still have a distinct "wh-" sound, which we English can no longer make and barely perceive, who say Whooper.

My Irish father, despite 40+ years in this country, pronounces 'what' differently from 'watt', 'which' differently from 'witch', 'whether' differently to 'weather'. I can't even impersonate him. The original pronunciation of Whooper involves a sound most English people can't make any more, and so we say Hooper.

Re the Queen's English - she may be one of the few remaining English people who make this wh- sound.

Graham

 

[Richard Klim]

Bit late... only just noticed this thread, but 'hwooper' (approximately - strong h, weak w) gets my vote.

Richard

The English people on here all say Hooper, and not Wooper, but NO-ONE says Wooper (except aforementioned beginners) It's the Scots and Irish who still have a distinct "wh-" sound, which we English can no longer make and barely perceive, who say Whooper.

Well I'm English, and coming from a working class background, I certainly don't use RP. But nevertheless I say whooper (ie hwooper)!

Richard

 

[Sancho]

My Irish father, despite 40+ years in this country, pronounces 'what' differently from 'watt', 'which' differently from 'witch', 'whether' differently to 'weather'. I can't even impersonate him.
Graham

I bet you can, Graham...just say "w" sound and blow gently at the same time! It´s pointless, but easy!!! (But can your Dad say hard "th"? Or does he say "I tink", like most(?) folk here do?)

Well I'm English, and coming from a working class background, I certainly don't use RP. But nevertheless I say whooper (ie hwooper)!

Richard

Yeah, I´ve heard English folk saying /wh/....how to you pronounce the onomatopaeic words that have it, like "whoosh", or "whoop", etc.?

B (as you can see, a well deserved Guinness :t

Cheers, Gmax! (I can´t drink it till February, though, ´cos I´m abstaining till then in financial penance for my new binoculars....next one´s on me!:t

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Exactly!!!

The English people on here all say Hooper, and not Wooper, but NO-ONE says Wooper (except aforementioned beginners) It's the Scots and Irish who still have a distinct "wh-" sound, which we English can no longer make and barely perceive, who say Whooper.

My Irish father, despite 40+ years in this country, pronounces 'what' differently from 'watt', 'which' differently from 'witch', 'whether' differently to 'weather'. I can't even impersonate him. The original pronunciation of Whooper involves a sound most English people can't make any more, and so we say Hooper.

Re the Queen's English - she may be one of the few remaining English people who make this wh- sound.

Graham

Interesting indeed. When exactly did I stop being English?

 

[Richard Klim]

Yeah, I´ve heard English folk saying /wh/....how to you pronounce the onomatopaeic words that have it, like "whoosh", or "whoop", etc.?

I pronounce everyday words learnt in and used from childhood in the 'English' way. I suppose it's mainly in the case of proper nouns (place names, personal names) and also species names, typically encountered on a case-by-case basis later in life, that I give a little thought to the background of the word and therefore the most appropriate pronunciation for it.

Richard

 

[gambirder]

Exactly!!!

The English people on here all say Hooper, and not Wooper, but NO-ONE says Wooper (except aforementioned beginners) It's the Scots and Irish who still have a distinct "wh-" sound, which we English can no longer make and barely perceive, who say Whooper.

Graham

Thanks Graham. That's helped me sort out a personal identity crisis! :t:

Grew up in Clackmannanshire, Central Scotland, and saw Whoopers every year on Gartmorn Dam . . . saw them somewhere in Southern England a coupla years back (Sussex?) and my "Hwoopers" was corrected to "Hoopers" by my bemused sassenach birding mates...

 

[Gashead]

I always say hooper but it annoys me when stuck up types put an f in front of 'when' - so another version could be a fwooper (if you come from Winsdor or Hampstead).

 

[Richard Klim]

I always say hooper but it annoys me when stuck up types put an f in front of 'when' - so another version could be a fwooper (if you come from Winsdor or Hampstead).

Now that's a version I've never come across before - good job Whooper Swans aren't too common in Windsor Great Park or on Hampstead Heath.

Richard