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gulls (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter lou salomon
- Start date
Steve Arlow
Well-known member
This bird was noted over the weekend in south Essex and would like opinions. I have my own thoughts on this bird but want to see if other match without any hints.
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lou salomon
the birdonist
hi steve,
if the white ventral tongues really are that long like they appear in pic 3 there is hardly any other option than cachinnans. a female type with early aquired bright bare parts. asmall p9 mirror, rel. thin p5 mark and rel. short legs are not too far off for caspian. not necessary to go into the hybrid speculation in my opinion. did anyone note if it had tongues into the black wingtip (upper-and underside) ?
if the white ventral tongues really are that long like they appear in pic 3 there is hardly any other option than cachinnans. a female type with early aquired bright bare parts. asmall p9 mirror, rel. thin p5 mark and rel. short legs are not too far off for caspian. not necessary to go into the hybrid speculation in my opinion. did anyone note if it had tongues into the black wingtip (upper-and underside) ?
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Hi Steve,
In my humble opinion, your bird is a rather typical Caspian Gull.
In my humble opinion, your bird is a rather typical Caspian Gull.
lou salomon
the birdonist
well, not too many caspians have such small round p9 mirrors, cristian.
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
generally yes 
these have similar p9 mirrors:
http://lou.bertalan.de/birds/pic/hi/up_0171.jpg
and the attached:
these have similar p9 mirrors:
http://lou.bertalan.de/birds/pic/hi/up_0171.jpg
and the attached:
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Steve Arlow
Well-known member
At time the bird was called as a Yellow-legged Gull, the head shape and rather bulbous looking bill etc, but it was once the all white tip to p10 was seen along with the rather limited amount of black in the wing-tip that made me start thinking Caspian instead. I didn't get a very good look at the underside of P10 to see the extent of the pale toungue extension but all the time we observed it it just felt more Yellow-legged than Casp, especially when an adult Casp appeared just nearby for comparison.
I pretty used to seeing Caspians and this just didn't have the right feel but perhaps a hybrid could be the answer Casp x Yellow-legged, I'm not sure I will be ever happy with calling it one or the other.
cheers
I pretty used to seeing Caspians and this just didn't have the right feel but perhaps a hybrid could be the answer Casp x Yellow-legged, I'm not sure I will be ever happy with calling it one or the other.
cheers
lou salomon
the birdonist
casp x YLG is one of the rarest hybrids (and hardly documented!). i don't think it is one. some caspians might have a lot of black on upperside of wingtip, but the tongue on the underside to p10 is too long to belong to a michahellis - though foreshortened i think there is enough to say it is at least half, probably more than half of the visible length of p10. see att.
aggressive raised wings on dumps is another pro casp.
aggressive raised wings on dumps is another pro casp.
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tittletattler
Well-known member
I would agree with Lou & Cristian - looks good for Caspian. I would need to go through my photos tonight to see if I get adult Yellow-legged Gulls with black marks in the bill upriver at Dartford. I will also check my images to see if the white primary tips are ever that big on Yellow-legged too.
Found this bird yesterday:
http://www.freewebs.com/jameshunter2/wildlifeblog.htm
The tip to P10 was all white.
What do you think? Maybe I should stop looking at gulls that are over half a mile away!
Cheers,
Andy.
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Hi Andy,
IMHO, could be very well a Caspian. And yes, stop looking at gulls that are over half a mile away, for God's sake!!! :-O
IMHO, could be very well a Caspian. And yes, stop looking at gulls that are over half a mile away, for God's sake!!! :-O
tittletattler
Well-known member
Steve Arlow
Well-known member
It is one of those birds that gives an impression one thing in the field and then of another once back home and looking at finer plumage details. It was the YLG appearance in the field vs the pro Caspian wing tip pattern; all white tip to P10, pale tongue on the underside of P10, the small dark beady eye, the pale legs etc more easily seen in the still images.
Based solely on the wing tip pattern I wouldn't hesitate with Caspian but combined with the YLG impression from the field and in other images, it was just a little more perplexing.
Based solely on the wing tip pattern I wouldn't hesitate with Caspian but combined with the YLG impression from the field and in other images, it was just a little more perplexing.
lou salomon
the birdonist
lou salomon
the birdonist
looks like a cach structurally, andy.
lou salomon
the birdonist
croatian ringed YLG in bucharest: http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=178
JANJ
Well-known member
Steve's gull looks good for Caspian. All the neded features are intact for one. The dark mark on p5 is quite variable in Caspian, can be quite thin or broader on the outer web or lacking all together.
See the same bird along with others at Steve's exellent site!
http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/Caspian Gull adults 2.html
JanJ
See the same bird along with others at Steve's exellent site!
http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/Caspian Gull adults 2.html
JanJ
lou salomon
the birdonist
3 girls wintering in stuttgart, 23.01.2010
hi folks,
always bit of a surprise to have large gulls here, now we're lucky to have 3 wintering 2cy girls: the already presented argentatus (see pics from jan 6th) and two really small cachinnans. i ask myself if the darker one could be from a hybridization zone, but apart from the very strong marked scaps (can't be more different than the greyish mantled bird) it has everything to be a perfect dark caspian gull. have a look:
1. argentatus
2.-4. the pale cachinnans
hi folks,
always bit of a surprise to have large gulls here, now we're lucky to have 3 wintering 2cy girls: the already presented argentatus (see pics from jan 6th) and two really small cachinnans. i ask myself if the darker one could be from a hybridization zone, but apart from the very strong marked scaps (can't be more different than the greyish mantled bird) it has everything to be a perfect dark caspian gull. have a look:
1. argentatus
2.-4. the pale cachinnans
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lou salomon
the birdonist
and the dark one
this is the strong marked cachi:
solid blackish scapular centres, 8 inner median coverts, some lessers and upper tertials renewed in the postjuvenile moult - this seems to suggests that it doesn't have argentatus blood but is just a pure darkish caspian. both caspians are exceptionally small and have short legs. the pale one has a 2 strange white spots in the centre of tertials (see swimming pic).
added a flying common gull..
cheers
this is the strong marked cachi:
solid blackish scapular centres, 8 inner median coverts, some lessers and upper tertials renewed in the postjuvenile moult - this seems to suggests that it doesn't have argentatus blood but is just a pure darkish caspian. both caspians are exceptionally small and have short legs. the pale one has a 2 strange white spots in the centre of tertials (see swimming pic).
added a flying common gull..
cheers
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