gulls (4 Viewers)

[tittletattler]

Steve's gull looks good for Caspian. All the neded features are intact for one. The dark mark on p5 is quite variable in Caspian, can be quite thin or broader on the outer web or lacking all together.

See the same bird along with others at Steve's exellent site!

http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/Caspian Gull adults 2.html


JanJ

http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/images/010210 - Caspian Gull 3rd winter Pitsea Tip WEB 266.jpg

I saw this bird upriver near Rainham RSPB!

 

[lou salomon]

hi cristian,

nice to see them in tineretului as well. that bill reminds me a bit of this bird: http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=15382

cheers

 

[lou salomon]

http://www.birdersplayground.co.uk/images/010210 - Caspian Gull 3rd winter Pitsea Tip WEB 266.jpg

I saw this bird upriver near Rainham RSPB!

hm, where are its mirrors???!! very strange bird. can't be a pure caspo. tongues seem to be on the short end for a 4cy as well. arg x cach?
cheers andy.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

What about this one?

 

[lou salomon]

now this one is a yellow-legged, cristian. valuable pics for future comparison, thanks. at the moment i'm working with my wife's notebook, my PC is wrecked but data are safe. i'll add these when the computer resurrects or is being replaced by a new one...
note the bold pattern, stout head/neck-portion and cold dark brown colour tone of juvenile coverts while caspians (see yours from today and mine from yesterday) usually have a rusty tingue to them.

 

[tittletattler]

hm, where are its mirrors???!! very strange bird. can't be a pure caspo. tongues seem to be on the short edge for a 4cy as well. arg x cach?
cheers andy.

I'll see if Steve has some more shots of that bird.

In the meantime, what do you make of this bird? It was in the same field as the '3rd win sp' (opposite a strip club!).

Unlike the 3rd winter, this bird stuck around long enough for me to get a few shots. I think it's a Yellow-legged Gull especially as it lacks the pale tips to the median and greater coverts. It also has a fair bit of 'eye-shadow'. But it is leggy. It was also an ultra aggressive brute!

I was also lucky enough to find a Glauc within 2 miles of my house today. First one I've seen in Dartford for 23 years. Pics here:

http://www.kentos.org.uk/recentsigntings/NWKentJan2010.htm

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[tittletattler]

more pics

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Yep Lou, a Yellow-legged (maybe a female?) but not a very typical one, I would say. Comparison with, let's say, this one.

 

[tittletattler]

this is the strong marked cachi:

solid blackish scapular centres, 8 inner median coverts, some lessers and upper tertials renewed in the postjuvenile moult - this seems to suggests that it doesn't have argentatus blood but is just a pure darkish caspian. both caspians are exceptionally small and have short legs. the pale one has a 2 strange white spots in the centre of tertials (see swimming pic).

added a flying common gull..

cheers

Difficult bird to ID (well, for me at least). Not much of a 'venetian blind' in the flight shot and those scaps are very dark centred. But looks like a Caspian overall.

 

[lou salomon]

andy,
yes, that's definitely a YLG bossing around o. long legs are pretty common in michahellis. congrats to the glaucous gull.

 

[tittletattler]

What about this one?

I would probably leave this as unidentified if i saw it here! That's simply because a lot of Herrings can look like this here and identification would be problemtaic. However, as it has replaced its tertials, would that be enough to eliminate Herring?

 

[tittletattler]

andy,
yes, that's definitely a YLG bossing around o. long legs are pretty common in michahellis. congrats to the glaucous gull.

Thanks Lou.

You might be interested by this Common Gull. I took this shot (and several other even more blurry ones) on the 10th January.

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Hi Andy,
Your Common Gull seems to be (almost entirely) in juvenile plumage. Look at this one (january 24th).

 

[lou salomon]

I would probably leave this as unidentified if i saw it here! That's simply because a lot of Herrings can look like this here and identification would be problemtaic. However, as it has replaced its tertials, would that be enough to eliminate Herring?

yes. such extensive postjuvenile moult (most visible LC and all visible MC renewed) is not found in herring gull.

like cristian said, such 1st winter common gulls with juvenile scaps occure (i've seen pics of a danish bird, now yours and had one last year in stuttgart), i think this is a bit more frequent in ssp. heinei - see cristian's bird, but nonetheless an exeption.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Here is a full juvenile Common Gull (January 16, Holland) - see the last pic of the topic.
http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3

 

[tittletattler]

yes. such extensive postjuvenile moult (most visible LC and all visible MC renewed) is not found in herring gull.

Thanks again Lou.

I have a plan.

I reckon I could produce a spreadsheet which shows moult for large gulls, in particular Herring, Yellow-legged and Caspian. I'd probably add Lesser-black Backed too (split by race).

This would look like a 'Gantt' chart. Ie, it would have dates across the top by month with species down the left hand side. I would then put in solid black lines for 'tertial' moult, wing covert moult etc.

Naturally I would need your help (because you guys know more than me!). Has this been done before?

Cheers,

Andy.

 

[lou salomon]

that's a great idea, andy, i just hope you won't get crazy with so many exceptions. to put down the basic moult schemes however would be good.

gull-resaearch.org - people have done it very detailed but not easy to follow for LBBG and HG (the latter isn't complete). i'm not as competent in this respect as you might think since i haven't handled and measured large gulls like those people from holland.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Hi Andy

I would (strongly) recommend you to contact the guys from gull-research. They know a lot about this topic.

P.S. Lou was faster...

 

[tittletattler]

Hi Andy

I would (strongly) recommend you to contact the guys from gull-research. They know a lot about this topic.

P.S. Lou was faster...

Will do. And thanks to both of you.

It won't be something I can complete overnight, that's for sure. :eek!:

Exceptions: I would deal with this by showing typical moult as a black bar with the exceptions being shown as 'grey' areas either side of the black bar.

Also, thanks for the Common Gull info. Very interesting!

How come Janj's so quiet, by the way?

 

[tittletattler]

Here is a full juvenile Common Gull (January 16, Holland) - see the last pic of the topic.
http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3

Hi Cristian,

I noted Mars' comments in that link. Your photos are an excellent resource!

I recall that a while back I asked if you had considered documenting your shots on a website. Did you consider it?? Would be very, very useful indeed.

Cheers,

Andy.