Not so Trinnie (2 Viewers)

[Kevin Conville]

Excited to hear of the "new" Trinovids, I had me a look.
hmm... they look a lot like Uvids.

The strap boss looks Trinovid, and uh, that's about it. They really are Ultravids (non HD), re-badged.
Too bad too as they (Leica) don't seem to understand what's at the core of love for the brick. It's the shape. That "shelf" on the top of real Trinnies, I think, is what lends to their handling. The fingers rest in the grip of the bins at the same time positioned to focus. The built up armor around the focus wheel also adds protection and the sense of stoutness.
I'd accept another couple of ounces for the old design.

 

[brocknroller]

Kevin,

I mentioned my disappointment over the fact that they look more like the Ultraslims than the fat old Trinnies on the other thread about "new Leicas".

They should have given some homage to the past if they use the same name. Maybe brick lite, but still brick.

If priced competitively with other second tier offerings, these might get the moniker as "Poor Man's Ultravids".

Brock

 

[ronh]

Kevin,
Nothing compares to the rugged good looks and the compact but massive roughboy experience of the Leica BA/BN. The heavy ribs, the shelf, the thick protective armor, the muscular focuser, the devil-may-care lack of objective covers....I admire things that some people dislike, but it has a unique style. Why couldn't they just put modern coatings on the old ones, and call it reissued?
Ron

 

[ceasar]

They are missing the ruffles and ridges of the old lethal weapon!

If they don't have ED coatings what are HDC coatings which they do have?

(Never mind. RonH explained it on another thread. It means High Density Coatings to protect against scratches. I think if they were on the old Trinny it would have been bomb proof!:king: )

Bob

 

[Kammerdiner]

They are missing the ruffles and ridges of the old lethal weapon!

If they don't have ED coatings what are HDC coatings which they do have?

(Never mind. RonH explained it on another thread. It means High Density Coatings to protect against scratches. I think if they were on the old Trinny it would have been bomb proof!:king: )

Bob

Actually, I think that was "High Durability Coatings," which preceded the latest "Aquadura" coatings which include the water/oil repellants.

The test will be the view, and without ED glass I'm guessing you might do better (or at least as good) with a "second-tier" binocular. We will see.

Mark

 

[NoSpringChicken]

I am rather disappointed with these. It seems to be a somewhat cynical ploy to cash in on the much loved Trinovid name with what appear to be 'Ultravid Lites'. The unique selling point of the original Trinovids was the shape which, for me, works brilliantly. There was also that air of extreme durability which few binoculars seem to possess.

I don't doubt that they may well be equal to, or better than, the originals optically but they don't look like a true substitute to me. Incidentally, can anybody tell me what the origin of the name 'Trinovid' is? Does it have a meaning or is it merely a name? If it is just a name, why would they use it for something that bears so little resemblance to the original?

Ron

 

[Surveyor]

Ron

Henry posted this a little while back.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2309591&postcount=37

 

[NoSpringChicken]

Ron

Henry posted this a little while back.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2309591&postcount=37

Thanks Ron, that is a very interesting link. I will study it properly later. However it appears that the name Trinovid was derived from "Tri" (three) "Nov"el innovations. I wonder what those three novel innovations are on this model?

Ron

 

[vop]

Also, the first model, Leitz Binocle 6x18, is a real open hinge! Could it be the first?

 

[jaymoynihan]

Me love the old brick

 

[Alexis Powell]

To all of you complainers about the new Trinovids:

No, they are not re-badged Ultravids. According to the spec sheet, they have a more restricted FOV (even after correcting for some flipped values between 8 and 10x models), and inferior or unimproved close focus and eye-relief in comparison to the Ultravids, and in comparison to their Ultra/Trinovid BA/BN predecessors.

What do you mean they don't look like a Trinovid? What does a Trinovid look like? The BA/BN Ultra/Trinovid series looked nothing like the Trinovid that came before it.

You say the old Trinovid would have been bomb-proof if it had special anti-scratch coatings? Well, lest we forget, the BN series (and maybe some BA production) did have such coatings!

Here's what surprises me. To compete with Swarovski, Nikon, and maybe Zeiss, Leica needs a new optical design. They've been using the same optical formulae for a long time now, in the Trinovid BA, Trinovid BN, Ultravids, and Ultravid HD, with only improvements to coatings (and lens material I guess, but with little change to optical formula, in the HD). Those bins have great optics, and Leica has lots of experience with those designs and putting them together. So I was expecting that they would essentially keep the Trinovid/Ultravid design, and move production to Portugal to keep costs down, then manufacture a new cutting edge design (at extreme cost and sales price) in Germany. This new Trinovid likely has better brightness and color than the old Trinovids, but otherwise it seems a disapointing step back from the Ultravids.

--AP

 

[Kevin Conville]

"What do you mean they don't look like a Trinovid? What does a Trinovid look like? The BA/BN Ultra/Trinovid series looked nothing like the Trinovid that came before it."

Thanks for pointing that out Alexis, though I doubt it was necessary. I don't think anyone is/was confused as to what bins we're talking about. The photo, the references to the "brick", and the fact that talking about a Leitz Trinovid (in comparison) would be irrelevant in this discussion were clues.

No, it's the Leica Trinovid of the last 20 years that's being discussed here. The binocular that was the archetype for all the highest quality roof prism bins to follow. The first to bring us true (submersible) waterproofing, first with center diopter adjustment, first with pop-up eyecups, hard coatings on the lenses, superb optical design, and significant armoring. Yep, that's the one.

Glad you mentioned the coatings though as I was intending on addressing that in my next post.

As far as them being (or not, as you state) re-badged Ultravids, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions, though I guess I did as well. I was referring mostly to their shape, not their specs. Yeah the specs indicate a slightly narrower FOV but that might be Leica dumbing down the spec as to not encourage cannibalizing sales of Uvids. It might also be a way of improving edge sharpness by narrowing the field stop slightly. It does seem to be the fashion these days for people to concentrate on the view at the field edges, for some reason I've yet to understand.

If the design is the same as previous Leica Trinovids (42mm now Alexis, not minis) and/or Ultravids, then the 11' focus is a bit of a mystery unless Leica wanted to increase the past infinity ability for some reason.

 

[jaymoynihan]

Me love the old brick

My fondness for the old "brick" design is for its ergonomics and body.

Luckily, i still have my old 10x42 BA. Which BTW, with the exception of "close focus" (Which for my eyes are at about 11 feet, i think spec is 13'?) , is still an excellennt glass :t:

 

[ronh]

With credit to Leica, the trim and lightweight Leitz Trinovid, immediate predecessor of the brick, is often called the most elegant and svelt binocular ever made. It is dreamed over at least as much as the brick itself, probably moreso. Henry Link has pointed out that with its simple cemented doublet objective, and lack of an internal focusing element, the optical system is superior to later designs. It is probably really it that deserves the "if they'd only update the coatings it'd be the blah blah" moaning treatment. (especially since the brick HAD phase coating, ha ha!)

The great stylistic difference between those two binoculars is striking, almost like daylight and dark. The Leica designers were rather on fire back then. Both are classics. OK, maybe the brick is not really a classic yet--too many people still don't know any better than to use them!
Ron

 

[John Russell]

It does seem to be the fashion these days for people to concentrate on the view at the field edges, for some reason I've yet to understand.

If the design is the same as previous Leica Trinovids (42mm now Alexis, not minis) and/or Ultravids, then the 11' focus is a bit of a mystery unless Leica wanted to increase the past infinity ability for some reason.

Kevin,

Owls have to move their heads but humans can move their eyes. If something catches my attention at the field edge I would prefer not to have field curvature or astigmatism there. Even a 4,2 mm exit pupil allows some eye movement in bright conditions. Go look through an SV - it's a revelation!

Another mystery is that the new Trinovids have, according to the Leica specs, 10 lenses per barrel. The 42 mm Ultravids have only 9 (or 8 in the case of the 7x42) and, AFAIK, no aspherical elements. More complication for a narrower AFOV doesn't seem to tie up.

John

 

[njlarsen]

OK, maybe the brick is not really a classic yet--too many people still don't know any better than to use them!
Ron

Guilty as charged o

Niels

 

[CloseFocus]

The new Trinovid looks like a Zeiss Conquest to me. Actually, I think I like the design of the Conquest better; the focus knobs look like they would be easier to turn.