What did I miss? Terra ED??? (2 Viewers)

[mjensen6577]

I'm guessing that asking the buyer to apply for a case could be Zeiss's way of objectively measuring just how many folks really want a case.

Is that the (pun warning) case Mike?

Plenty of folks on here have said they never use the case. Plenty have said they do. Seems to make sense Zeiss would want to bottom this question.

Lee

Lee, let me explain the case since this was a challenging situation Zeiss had to work through. You are correct that we are trying to evaluate the "need" of offering a cordura case. How this came about was:
Background:
When we started this Terra ED project (initially for the USA market) we (USA Zeiss) completed an extensive market analysis and determined that if Zeiss could bring a $399 product to market with (best in class) optics and carrying the Zeiss brand that we'd have a winner. Also, we knew that 70% of this $399 market segment is sold through chain stores. Therefore, we needed a "best in class", $399 product that could take the market share from the volume leaders who were successfully selling product from $$349-$449 through chain stores. The acrylic box (of which we have patented) was researched and this fresh display box for self serve retailers made sense for the chain channel and conversely would have no negative impact on our traditional loyal dealers... and the cordura case wouldn't fit in the new box. Ultimately, the decision came down to offering a case in a traditional box or... a new acrylic box where the product could be seen 360 degrees at retail. The acrylic box was purely a marketing strategy that gave us a competitive advantage whereas not offering a case could give us a competitive disadvantage. I have heard both sides of the story
a. you MUST offer a case to be competitive and
b. a case has little value when the purchase is made sine many don't use it

Ultimately, I made the decision to offer a coupon to evaluate how many cases would be redeemed. This is currently underway. Statistics later this year will assist our decision.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[cycleguy]

Put me down for the cordura case.

Care to share the thought behind the fed duck stamp vs cash back rebate on the conquest hd?

Don't worry, you already have my cash.

I also parted withy swaro and leupold scopes and went with the conquest during close-out. So far i 'm happy with that decision.

I guess you guys are getting the better of me.

Thought you would like to know...

cg

 

[ceasar]

Mike,

Thanks for coming on the forum and clearing things up. We would be speculating for months otherwise!

My speculation on the purpose of the Acrylic box was correct. It was to be used as a display item in big box chain stores. I'll have to admit that was dumb luck on my part. But it is interesting to know that Zeiss patented it.

As for the case: Priced at $10.00 and change it is a bargain and well worth the (now) short wait to get it.

Bob

 

[NDhunter]

Mike,

Thanks for coming on the forum and clearing things up. We would be speculating for months otherwise!

My speculation on the purpose of the Acrylic box was correct. It was to be used as a display item in big box chain stores. I'll have to admit that was dumb luck on my part. But it is interesting to know that Zeiss patented it.

As for the case: Priced at $10.00 and change it is a bargain and well worth the (now) short wait to get it.

Bob

Bob:

That is a good point, and I am wondering if there is a tab to hang these
along side the bubble pack Bushnells and the Nikon Actions.

I should not make fun, but Zeiss does sell the Conquest at Walmart, so
it has gone mainstream.

I will recommend one thing to Zeiss, and that is to carefully check the
collimation of these in the USA before they are sent out to the sellers.

Zenray, has had to do that, as I recall, as the problem rate was
evident, as has been mentioned by the seller.

That cost would eat up the $10. for the case, but, I certainly want
a binocular that is optically correct.

I am sorry to nitpick, an otherwise very nice binocular, but that was
my experience.

Jerry

 

[Troubador]

Lee, let me explain the case since this was a challenging situation Zeiss had to work through. You are correct that we are trying to evaluate the "need" of offering a cordura case. How this came about was:
Background:
When we started this Terra ED project (initially for the USA market) we (USA Zeiss) completed an extensive market analysis and determined that if Zeiss could bring a $399 product to market with (best in class) optics and carrying the Zeiss brand that we'd have a winner. Also, we knew that 70% of this $399 market segment is sold through chain stores. Therefore, we needed a "best in class", $399 product that could take the market share from the volume leaders who were successfully selling product from $$349-$449 through chain stores. The acrylic box (of which we have patented) was researched and this fresh display box for self serve retailers made sense for the chain channel and conversely would have no negative impact on our traditional loyal dealers... and the cordura case wouldn't fit in the new box. Ultimately, the decision came down to offering a case in a traditional box or... a new acrylic box where the product could be seen 360 degrees at retail. The acrylic box was purely a marketing strategy that gave us a competitive advantage whereas not offering a case could give us a competitive disadvantage. I have heard both sides of the story
a. you MUST offer a case to be competitive and
b. a case has little value when the purchase is made sine many don't use it

Ultimately, I made the decision to offer a coupon to evaluate how many cases would be redeemed. This is currently underway. Statistics later this year will assist our decision.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Mike

Thanks for taking the time to explain the thinking behind it all. Anecdotal evidence about how many folks use a case and how many don't is one thing, getting a real handle on it is another. The acrylic case has caused some puzzlement here in some quarters but its a sound example of original thinking as Zeiss steps into unknown territory.

Terra is a bold move for Zeiss and I really hope that it is the success it deserves to be.

Lee

 

[Alexis Powell]

...The acrylic box was purely a marketing strategy that gave us a competitive advantage whereas not offering a case could give us a competitive disadvantage. I have heard both sides of the story
a. you MUST offer a case to be competitive and
b. a case has little value when the purchase is made sine many don't use it

Ultimately, I made the decision to offer a coupon to evaluate how many cases would be redeemed. This is currently underway. Statistics later this year will assist our decision...

Dear Mike,

I want to thank you for taking the time to communicate here on Birdforum. It's quite refreshing to have your perspective, so again, thanks for allowing us a peak into to the thinking behind the Terra marketing. I'm not sure how our discussions here relate to the purchasing decisions of the masses, but I hope your time here provides you some useful insight as well.

I have a concern about the Terra with respect to minimum IPD. Zeiss has been a standout over the last few model releases (FL, Conquest, Conquest HD, HT) for making products with industry-leading minimum IPD (of 52 or 54 mm on x32 and x42 bins), and I've done my best on Birdforum to call attention to that. Unfortunately, the Terra breaks with that trend. With its claimed minimum IPD of 57.5 mm, it is actually worse than the de facto industry standard of 56 mm for full and 2/3 sized roof prism bins and for reverse-porro compacts. This poorer than usual >56 mm spec is found on some other otherwise promising products made in China (e.g. many Vortex models). I'd really like to see the industry as a whole take seriously the needs of children and adults with low IPD, and of adults who actually use their close-focus capable bins (e.g. the Terra, which focuses to 5 ft) at close distances (e.g. when butterfly watching) and so adjust the IPD lower than "usual". Too often, I think the design of the hinge to stop at 56 mm is entirely arbitrary, and not a limitation imposed by objective size or the mechanics of the focus drive. I hope the 57.5 mm spec for the Terra is not an oversight, but rather an unfortunate compromise made necessary by using a pre-existing chassis that was designed by someone who was ignorant of the significance of this spec.

As for bino cases, I appreciate them when they actually fit the binocular. Cases that are too small or tight along at least one dimension are obviously of little use (e.g. The zippered "shaving" pouches supplied with the Swarovski 8x32 and 8.5x42 EL). Cases that are too bulky (e.g. the cordura case supplied with the Zeiss 8x32 FL) are irritating, especially for x32 and x20 binos since one of the main functions of such smaller bins is to be compact. If I want a case big enough for a field guide and a snack, I'll buy something specially made to do those things even better. Strangely, many bins are supplied with cases that are not a good fit. That is why I use a B&L Elite case for my Swarovski 8.5x42 EL, a Leica 8x32 BN leather pouch with my Zeiss 8x32 FL, a Zeiss 8x32 FL case with my Swarovski 8x32 EL, and my Swarovski 8x32 EL "shaving pouch" as a case for my Norelco shaver. In contrast, I treasure the Leica leather pouch that came with my Leica 8x32 Trinovid BA, and the leather clamshell that came with my Leica 8x20 Ultravid. They greatly enhance the packability and thus utility of those bins.

--AP

 

[A2GG]

cases: I've never used a single of one those neoprene Leupold cases included with the bins. They are terrible and there's just no reason to make them IMO. I purchased Vortex cases for my Leupold bins when I owned those. The Vortex cases are much nicer, a bit snug though. I love my little Swaro case for the CL. It fits nicely and is good material.

 

[mjensen6577]

Put me down for the cordura case.

Care to share the thought behind the fed duck stamp vs cash back rebate on the conquest hd?

Don't worry, you already have my cash.

I also parted withy swaro and leupold scopes and went with the conquest during close-out. So far i 'm happy with that decision.

I guess you guys are getting the better of me.

Thought you would like to know...

cg

The Duck Stamp promotion was merely a way of supporting the Birding community since many birders buy duck stamps annually to have access to federal land. Duck stamps came available for sale this year at the same time our fall rebates began and although not as interesting as a "rebate", it was something different for us to try. The Conquest HD is selling very well for us and was not on the "items to promote" plan for this fall, but we felt a "Duck Stamp" promotion made sense and would give the birding retailers something different to talk about.

 

[mjensen6577]

Dear Mike,

I want to thank you for taking the time to communicate here on Birdforum. It's quite refreshing to have your perspective, so again, thanks for allowing us a peak into to the thinking behind the Terra marketing. I'm not sure how our discussions here relate to the purchasing decisions of the masses, but I hope your time here provides you some useful insight as well.

I have a concern about the Terra with respect to minimum IPD. Zeiss has been a standout over the last few model releases (FL, Conquest, Conquest HD, HT) for making products with industry-leading minimum IPD (of 52 or 54 mm on x32 and x42 bins), and I've done my best on Birdforum to call attention to that. Unfortunately, the Terra breaks with that trend. With its claimed minimum IPD of 57.5 mm, it is actually worse than the de facto industry standard of 56 mm for full and 2/3 sized roof prism bins and for reverse-porro compacts. This poorer than usual >56 mm spec is found on some other otherwise promising products made in China (e.g. many Vortex models). I'd really like to see the industry as a whole take seriously the needs of children and adults with low IPD, and of adults who actually use their close-focus capable bins (e.g. the Terra, which focuses to 5 ft) at close distances (e.g. when butterfly watching) and so adjust the IPD lower than "usual". Too often, I think the design of the hinge to stop at 56 mm is entirely arbitrary, and not a limitation imposed by objective size or the mechanics of the focus drive. I hope the 57.5 mm spec for the Terra is not an oversight, but rather an unfortunate compromise made necessary by using a pre-existing chassis that was designed by someone who was ignorant of the significance of this spec.

As for bino cases, I appreciate them when they actually fit the binocular. Cases that are too small or tight along at least one dimension are obviously of little use (e.g. The zippered "shaving" pouches supplied with the Swarovski 8x32 and 8.5x42 EL). Cases that are too bulky (e.g. the cordura case supplied with the Zeiss 8x32 FL) are irritating, especially for x32 and x20 binos since one of the main functions of such smaller bins is to be compact. If I want a case big enough for a field guide and a snack, I'll buy something specially made to do those things even better. Strangely, many bins are supplied with cases that are not a good fit. That is why I use a B&L Elite case for my Swarovski 8.5x42 EL, a Leica 8x32 BN leather pouch with my Zeiss 8x32 FL, a Zeiss 8x32 FL case with my Swarovski 8x32 EL, and my Swarovski 8x32 EL "shaving pouch" as a case for my Norelco shaver. In contrast, I treasure the Leica leather pouch that came with my Leica 8x32 Trinovid BA, and the leather clamshell that came with my Leica 8x20 Ultravid. They greatly enhance the packability and thus utility of those bins.

--AP

Regarding IPD on the Terra, you are somewhat correct. We did recognize this spec during the early stages of the project. However, this was new water for Zeiss and this project was a "design to cost" product with a clear "$399" retail price point target. Engineering said that to redesign the hinge may cause a potential miss of a primary $399 objective, and may delay the launch another 90 days, so we made the decision that $399 was more important than cutting 2mm off the IPD. It was absolutely a compromise since IPD, although important, was not on the top 5 USP's (Unique Selling Proposition). Sorry, wish we could have got there.

 

[Essex Tern]

A question I would be interested in knowing the answer to, if a Zeiss representative would be so kind to answer, is has the 7x magnification been abandoned entirely for the forseeable future? Shame if so, but will treasure my 7x42FL even more if so. I understand not the greatest seller but there could be a combination out there that could sell like hotcakes - say 7x32?

Thanks, in hope.

 

[mjensen6577]

Bob:

That is a good point, and I am wondering if there is a tab to hang these
along side the bubble pack Bushnells and the Nikon Actions.

I should not make fun, but Zeiss does sell the Conquest at Walmart, so
it has gone mainstream.

I will recommend one thing to Zeiss, and that is to carefully check the
collimation of these in the USA before they are sent out to the sellers.

Zenray, has had to do that, as I recall, as the problem rate was
evident, as has been mentioned by the seller.

That cost would eat up the $10. for the case, but, I certainly want
a binocular that is optically correct.

I am sorry to nitpick, an otherwise very nice binocular, but that was
my experience.

Jerry

Jerry,
I hear your concern, and we do QC Terra as it enters our warehouse. Our QC process is extremely thorough and quite complex. Zeiss Germany receives express sample shipments in advance of Asian shipment release and QC's them (top to bottom), and then we QC random sample a very high statistical ratio of all product rolling in the door again for optical quality, focus functionality, collimation...etc. Our results have been very good. It's possible that something got through and for that I apologize. If yours is not correct, we will repair or replace immediately.

Regarding the box, no, no pegboard hangtags for Zeiss. Acrylic was for secondary placement at retail to differentiate Zeiss from all the other cardboard boxes on the retailers shelf. Our distribution stops at the outdoor chain level or with sporting goods distributors. Wal Mart sells vision cleaning cloths and uses Zeiss eyeglass lens equipment, but we do not sell them optics directly. If a Wal Mart carries Conquest binoculars, they bought some of the old Conquest line through a distributor. Plus, all new Conquest product we have pulled out of distributors so this new Conquest product is not available to them at all. We do sell Terra to distributors, so it might be possible that a distributor sells some of this to Wal-Mart.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[mjensen6577]

A question I would be interested in knowing the answer to, if a Zeiss representative would be so kind to answer, is has the 7x magnification been abandoned entirely for the forseeable future? Shame if so, but will treasure my 7x42FL even more if so. I understand not the greatest seller but there could be a combination out there that could sell like hotcakes - say 7x32?

Thanks, in hope.

Unfortunately, for the time being, yes. The 7x sales are a mere fraction of the 8x, and you have R&D costs to develop and higher manufacturing costs to build small volumes. Even in the old days when I was working for Swar....., 7x sales were a mere fraction of the original 8x30 SLC. I personally love small 7x binos, just have a difficult time selling them. So, for now, we don't have one on the drawing board. Sorry.

 

[Essex Tern]

Unfortunately, for the time being, yes. The 7x sales are a mere fraction of the 8x, and you have R&D costs to develop and higher manufacturing costs to build small volumes. Even in the old days when I was working for Swar....., 7x sales were a mere fraction of the original 8x30 SLC. I personally love small 7x binos, just have a difficult time selling them. So, for now, we don't have one on the drawing board. Sorry.

Oh well, many thanks for the reply though, saved me a few £'s on the bright side :-O and I do still have a brilliant binocular to enjoy. I will no doubt be near the front of the queue should things change in the future though.

 

[mjensen6577]

Dear Mike,

I want to thank you for taking the time to communicate here on Birdforum. It's quite refreshing to have your perspective, so again, thanks for allowing us a peak into to the thinking behind the Terra marketing. I'm not sure how our discussions here relate to the purchasing decisions of the masses, but I hope your time here provides you some useful insight as well.

I have a concern about the Terra with respect to minimum IPD. Zeiss has been a standout over the last few model releases (FL, Conquest, Conquest HD, HT) for making products with industry-leading minimum IPD (of 52 or 54 mm on x32 and x42 bins), and I've done my best on Birdforum to call attention to that. Unfortunately, the Terra breaks with that trend. With its claimed minimum IPD of 57.5 mm, it is actually worse than the de facto industry standard of 56 mm for full and 2/3 sized roof prism bins and for reverse-porro compacts. This poorer than usual >56 mm spec is found on some other otherwise promising products made in China (e.g. many Vortex models). I'd really like to see the industry as a whole take seriously the needs of children and adults with low IPD, and of adults who actually use their close-focus capable bins (e.g. the Terra, which focuses to 5 ft) at close distances (e.g. when butterfly watching) and so adjust the IPD lower than "usual". Too often, I think the design of the hinge to stop at 56 mm is entirely arbitrary, and not a limitation imposed by objective size or the mechanics of the focus drive. I hope the 57.5 mm spec for the Terra is not an oversight, but rather an unfortunate compromise made necessary by using a pre-existing chassis that was designed by someone who was ignorant of the significance of this spec.

As for bino cases, I appreciate them when they actually fit the binocular. Cases that are too small or tight along at least one dimension are obviously of little use (e.g. The zippered "shaving" pouches supplied with the Swarovski 8x32 and 8.5x42 EL). Cases that are too bulky (e.g. the cordura case supplied with the Zeiss 8x32 FL) are irritating, especially for x32 and x20 binos since one of the main functions of such smaller bins is to be compact. If I want a case big enough for a field guide and a snack, I'll buy something specially made to do those things even better. Strangely, many bins are supplied with cases that are not a good fit. That is why I use a B&L Elite case for my Swarovski 8.5x42 EL, a Leica 8x32 BN leather pouch with my Zeiss 8x32 FL, a Zeiss 8x32 FL case with my Swarovski 8x32 EL, and my Swarovski 8x32 EL "shaving pouch" as a case for my Norelco shaver. In contrast, I treasure the Leica leather pouch that came with my Leica 8x32 Trinovid BA, and the leather clamshell that came with my Leica 8x20 Ultravid. They greatly enhance the packability and thus utility of those bins.

--AP

You are quite welcome. Forum discussions gives me a method of staying in contact with the end consumer, understanding the market a little better, watch for deficiencies we have that sitting behind a desk all day normally take from someone in my role. Sometimes I'll go dark for weeks, but will check back in from time to time.

 

[A2GG]

Hi Mike,
I hope you don't mind me asking this question:
Are there any plans to make an 8x32 version of the HT ?
- Beth

 

[NDhunter]

Jerry,
I hear your concern, and we do QC Terra as it enters our warehouse. Our QC process is extremely thorough and quite complex. Zeiss Germany receives express sample shipments in advance of Asian shipment release and QC's them (top to bottom), and then we QC random sample a very high statistical ratio of all product rolling in the door again for optical quality, focus functionality, collimation...etc. Our results have been very good. It's possible that something got through and for that I apologize. If yours is not correct, we will repair or replace immediately.

Regarding the box, no, no pegboard hangtags for Zeiss. Acrylic was for secondary placement at retail to differentiate Zeiss from all the other cardboard boxes on the retailers shelf. Our distribution stops at the outdoor chain level or with sporting goods distributors. Wal Mart sells vision cleaning cloths and uses Zeiss eyeglass lens equipment, but we do not sell them optics directly. If a Wal Mart carries Conquest binoculars, they bought some of the old Conquest line through a distributor. Plus, all new Conquest product we have pulled out of distributors so this new Conquest product is not available to them at all. We do sell Terra to distributors, so it might be possible that a distributor sells some of this to Wal-Mart.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Mike:

Thanks for the reply. I like the new Terra, except for my issue.

I have also tried the Conquest HD binocular in store, and have mentioned here that I would place it high
in a list of midrange optics, and I think Zeiss will sell a lot of these.

You have been busy at Zeiss with lots of new models, and I like the
efforts. My last riflescope purchase was a Zeiss.

I have a lot of respect for Zeiss optics, I recently acquired a used
10x40BTP Classic, and this is also one fine binocular.

Jerry

 

[mjensen6577]

Hi Mike,
I hope you don't mind me asking this question:
Are there any plans to make an 8x32 version of the HT ?
- Beth

Beth, Although I'd love to answer the question, Zeiss is in a very competitive market and my friendly competitors are watching us more now than ever. A Victory 32mm is a natural in-line addition and is on the future roadmap, but product rollout timelines change constantly. Wish I could be clearer.

M

 

[A2GG]

Beth, Although I'd love to answer the question, Zeiss is in a very competitive market and my friendly competitors are watching us more now than ever. A Victory 32mm is a natural in-line addition and is on the future roadmap, but product rollout timelines change constantly. Wish I could be clearer.

M

thanks so much Mike !

 

[eitanaltman]

Jerry - so far the collimation issue you found seems to be an isolated incident. I haven't heard of a single other QC type complaint with these Terra's and there are now quite a few who have posted here about buying them (including one who bought three pairs right?). You know how the folks on this forum are, if there were problems we would hear about them.

Compare to the launches of some other products, I think the Terra is really coming off as realizing the promise of superior QC standards in a Chinese optic thanks to the oversight of Zeiss. When I initially posted about them from the bird fair, I noted that the quality of build (especially the focus knob) and hopefully QC would be a real separator vs the other China bin competition, and it looks like that is bearing itself out. Hopefully it continues.

 

[Troubador]

product rollout timelines change constantly.

M

Mike

You are being generous with your time here, so I'll take advantage of that and observe that one product roll-out time-line that changed, and changed, and changed etc was the launch and availability of HT.

You have been quoted elsewhere that you want to eliminate this kind of on-off launch and that is to be applauded.

Can you say what happened and can you say it won't happen again?

Lee