Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
illcrazy2, Tom,
Generally transmission differences of 3% or less are not visible..
Gijs
Generally transmission differences of 3% or less are not visible..
Gijs
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Gijs' Comprehensive Test of Transmission in Pocket Models (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter John A Roberts
- Start date
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
adhoc, post 42,
I have not investigated these Nikon pockets. That has to do with the way Nikon is sold in our country: mostly through photography shops and hardly or not in binocular shops. If I can find one, we certainly will give it a try.
Gijs van Ginkel
I have not investigated these Nikon pockets. That has to do with the way Nikon is sold in our country: mostly through photography shops and hardly or not in binocular shops. If I can find one, we certainly will give it a try.
Gijs van Ginkel
Thanks, Gijs.
I think you'll enjoy using them while testing. They are generally praised highly. Some years ago I was able to briefly compare the 10x25 with my Leica Ultravid 10x25 and to me they were optically better--more pleasing in color rendition and ease of viewing and equal in other aspects (very sharp, etc.). I'm thinking of trying the HG 10x25 as my 10x now--if I don't learn that Nikon is replacing them with a new model!
I think you'll enjoy using them while testing. They are generally praised highly. Some years ago I was able to briefly compare the 10x25 with my Leica Ultravid 10x25 and to me they were optically better--more pleasing in color rendition and ease of viewing and equal in other aspects (very sharp, etc.). I'm thinking of trying the HG 10x25 as my 10x now--if I don't learn that Nikon is replacing them with a new model!
Gijs,
I compared the Papillio sample at my local photo shop to my Victor Pocket 8x25. I assure you the Zeiss was worth two Papilios
You may have had a better sample.
Ergonomically, I much prefer the Papillio, and if I needed to spend money again it’s the one I would pay for; but then I’m now one interaction with Zeiss repair wiser. I am using a 70 year old Silvarem which cost me 30 euros, every day at the moment, and I find it perfectly fit for purpose for garden birds because it has good ergonomics.
Frankly, I have no doubts that you are the better observer, but it would seem wierd if the $150 Papilio beat what is considered to be the sharpest pocket binocular presently made, costing 4x the price
Edmund
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lilcrazy2
Well-known member
EdmundGijs,
I compared the Papillio sample at my local photo shop to my Victor Pocket 8x25. I assure you the Zeiss was worth two Papilios
You may have had a better sample.
Ergonomically, I much prefer the Papillio, and if I needed to spend money again it’s the one I would pay for; but then I’m now one interaction with Zeiss repair wiser. I am using a 70 year old Silvarem which cost me 30 euros, every day at the moment, and I find it perfectly fit for purpose for garden birds because it has good ergonomics.
Frankly, I have no doubts that you are the better observer, but it would seem wierd if the $150 Papilio beat what is considered to be the sharpest pocket binocular presently made, costing 4x the price
Edmund
I think you might have misunderstood Gijs comments on the Papilio, as he never said it was better than, or beat any other bino - just that it was not dim and not unsharp, that, in response to others comments that they were dim and unsharp. If you look at the charts that are linked in post #1 of this thread, you can see that the little Zeiss 8x25 beats the Papilio quite handily in transmission and color reproduction. The only place that the Papilio shines over the Zeiss, is its focus ability closer than the 1.9 meter CF of the Zeiss. I was commenting, as was another, on the fact that the Papilio had transmission values in the low 80 % range. I would have considered it to be much, much lower simply from the fact that a 10x42 Meopta Meopro Air has a published transmission value of a little over 83% -
You have a magnificent little bino in your Zeiss - some in America would call it the "bees knees" - but I can actually see the bees knees at 2ft and you can't. LOL
Tom
A very interesting and enjoyable article Gijs. Thanks so much for taking so much pain. I am amazed you managed to get hold of so many legacy binoculars for this comparison.
@ Dennis - The Papilio to my eyes is neither dim nor soft. At its MFD it is beautifully sharp and bright and contrasty - a modern 1:1 macro lens would be hard pressed to capture something in such detail. In that close focus territory, the Papilio is the only alpha.
Gijs, BTW I loved what you had to say about them South African bins 😁
Arijit
@ Dennis - The Papilio to my eyes is neither dim nor soft. At its MFD it is beautifully sharp and bright and contrasty - a modern 1:1 macro lens would be hard pressed to capture something in such detail. In that close focus territory, the Papilio is the only alpha.
Gijs, BTW I loved what you had to say about them South African bins 😁
Arijit
Tom, all you say is very true. I would add that in my view the Papilio is probably optically representative of the $100 class of small japanese instruments, all of which are perfectly nice for observations.Edmund
I think you might have misunderstood Gijs comments on the Papilio, as he never said it was better than, or beat any other bino - just that it was not dim and not unsharp, that, in response to others comments that they were dim and unsharp. If you look at the charts that are linked in post #1 of this thread, you can see that the little Zeiss 8x25 beats the Papilio quite handily in transmission and color reproduction. The only place that the Papilio shines over the Zeiss, is its focus ability closer than the 1.9 meter CF of the Zeiss. I was commenting, as was another, on the fact that the Papilio had transmission values in the low 80 % range. I would have considered it to be much, much lower simply from the fact that a 10x42 Meopta Meopro Air has a published transmission value of a little over 83% -
You have a magnificent little bino in your Zeiss - some in America would call it the "bees knees" - but I can actually see the bees knees at 2ft and you can't. LOL
Tom
Edmund
elkcub
Silicon Valley, California
Actually, the 7x26 Custom was upgraded to full multi-coating back in 1994 according to the attached BVD article. I bought mine new about a decade ago and it's quite nice little package; solidly built and very bright. A twist-out eyecup model was marketed a few years later as the ELITE version (now at auction used for $398
), although I don't know if it differs in performance. I can only assume the optical design is unaltered because the 363' FOV is the same. The last picture shows the difference in size between the Custom and Papillio. The two have about the same brightness to my eyes, but serve somewhat different observation tasks.Ed
Note: Brand new Elite Customs can be acquired on eBay.
Attachments
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elkcub
Silicon Valley, California
Thank you too Gijs - I cannot imagine the trouble you must have gone to over the years to compile these figures, and thank you for your generosity in sharing them with a (not always fully appreciative) audience.
I agree that the Papilio is not a fantastic birding binocular; with distance viewing it is dimmer and has less contrast than...euh, a more birding oriented set of bins from a big brand (I use Meopta Meostars). The little Papilio totally shines nearby, for insects it's unsurpassed, and if a bird shows up within 50-80m or something, it's adequate. Beyond that it certainly lacks. Gijs might have a cherry?
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Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
May be that something else can play a role here:
We investigated the Papillio-2 and not the original Papillio and it very well possible that there is a difference between these Papillios.
Gijs van Ginkel
We investigated the Papillio-2 and not the original Papillio and it very well possible that there is a difference between these Papillios.
Gijs van Ginkel
yarrellii
Well-known member
The last iteration of the B&L/Bushnell 7x26 Custom/Elite is one of the binoculars I've grown more and more interested overtime and there are two things that I find interesting/surprising/puzzling. You very rarely see them on the 2nd hand market and the prices for new ones seem quite steep. I want to thing that both are related and speak about its quality, but I'd love to be able to check it for myself. I'm not in a hurry, hopefully one day
Since when has Papillio-2 been marketed? The store which had the Papillio has now gone out of business, after selling their stock of those pre-ultravid Trinovids - you know what I mean - so they has some older stock. The Trinovid I tried was pretty good, but oh so heavy
Update - the Papillio-2 seems to have been around since 2015. I think probably I tried some old stock ...
Edmund
elkcub
Silicon Valley, California
I haven't explored this in quantitative detail, but I have compared the Leica 8x20, Papillio-II, and Bushnell 7x26 Custom shown posts #49 and #50.
At about 12' distance, where they can all focus easily, they each produce excellent images. At great distances they can all obtain focus, BUT, the Papillio is very difficult to work with because even the slightest motion of the focusing wheel overruns the target. So, it's not really engineered very well for distance viewing, although it can be done with sufficient annoyance to get in the way of many birdwatching tasks.
Ed
At about 12' distance, where they can all focus easily, they each produce excellent images. At great distances they can all obtain focus, BUT, the Papillio is very difficult to work with because even the slightest motion of the focusing wheel overruns the target. So, it's not really engineered very well for distance viewing, although it can be done with sufficient annoyance to get in the way of many birdwatching tasks.
Ed
elkcub
Silicon Valley, California
Hi,The last iteration of the B&L/Bushnell 7x26 Custom/Elite is one of the binoculars I've grown more and more interested overtime and there are two things that I find interesting/surprising/puzzling. You very rarely see them on the 2nd hand market and the prices for new ones seem quite steep. I want to thing that both are related and speak about its quality, but I'd love to be able to check it for myself. I'm not in a hurry, hopefully one day
Let me know when you're planning to visit the San Francisco Bay area and I'll let you try out mine.
Ed
elkcub
Silicon Valley, California
This Amazon link might work for you. Oui?Since when has Papillio-2 been marketed? The store which had the Papillio has now gone out of business, after selling their stock of those pre-ultravid Trinovids - you know what I mean - so they has some older stock. The Trinovid I tried was pretty good, but oh so heavy
Update - the Papillio-2 seems to have been around since 2015. I think probably I tried some old stock ...
Edmund
Ed
thx - I was just wondering whether I’d tried the old one.
it really is a standout design …
Edmund
