Habicht 10x40 porro (1 Viewer)

Hi all,

Having rediscovered porros in the shape of Opticron Minerva 8x30s, I went to the shops to check out other porros.

Only one pair I tried were truly noteworthy:
Swaro Habicht 10x40s. They are really nice. Obviously being 10x they fov isn't very wide at 6.2 degrees but the apparent FOV was very comfortable. I could see the whole view no problem (unlike the Minervas 8.3 degrees which I can't see all of) and no hint of the looking down a tunnell effect. I should say that I had contact lenses in today but I wouldn't want to try them with specs on as the eyerelief is very small.

Being much bigger they were easier to hold than my miniature 8x30s. Reminding me of open hinged bins actually in that you could wrap your fingers round each barrel and really steady the 10x mag in the breeze.

I've never really got into 10x bins but the extra mag felt good and the depth of field was massive with very little focussing required from near to far. With a bin of this quality I am tempted to branch out into the world of 10x.

The close focus was around 9 feet I estimate.

The focus action was a lot slower than the Minervas (which are super fast at about a half a turn all in). I think the Swaros were about a turn and a quarter (possibly a half).

The view through them was absolutely fantastic. Crisp and sharp. I'm not really bothered by CA so I can't comment but it was a very dark overcast afternoon and the view through the Swaros was really bright. Colourwise they saw what I saw with my naked eye. Very nice.

Overall very very impressed and beginning to want them. I'd really like to try the 8x30s but no shops around here stock them.

Oh, I nearly forgot. Lots of comments I have read complained about a very stiff focus action. The ones I tried today were easy to turn and very very smooth. Focussing was easy and accurate. A joy to use in fact so I am a bit perplexed by the comments I read yesterday. I don't think the comments I read were referring solely to focusing in cold weather.

All in all very nice indeed.

Does anyone have any comments on the 8x30s as that is the configuration I am really interested in.

Best wishes,
Martin.

The Habicht 8x30 is just as great as the 10x40 you described. It is regarded by many as one of the best 8x30's ever made. As an example, please search for an article on center-focusing 8x30 porro binoculars by Brin Best.

SteveF said:

The Habicht 8x30 is just as great as the 10x40 you described. It is regarded by many as one of the best 8x30's ever made. As an example, please search for an article on center-focusing 8x30 porro binoculars by Brin Best.

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Is this the article?

http://www.brinbest.com/id38.html

The first sentence states: "The porro prism configuration of 8 x 30 is probably the most successful in binocular history."

Bob

Yes. I didn't want to break any rules by linking to other sites.

I have some of these porros, and I agree with the article's order ranking of quality. Of course, that's just my opinion and Mr. Best's.

I have read this article before. It is very good. I would like to try all the binoculars he writes about there.

The Opticron Minervas, which have lead me back to porros after many years, are the immediate for-runners to the SRGAs, which he writes about as being almost as good as the others for much less money.

I have tried Nikon SEs in the past while wearing glasses and couldn't get on with them at all. Blackouts. I now have contact lenses and plan to try them again.

I really like the idea of the superwide field of the EIIS but I suspect I will not be able to see it all. I can't quite see the whole 8.3 degrees of the Minervas.

The Swaros particularly appeal becasue they are waterproof while the others are not. Especially as the focus wheel on the 10x40s I tried yesterday was not stiff as I expected due to the waterproof seals. Although there is a degree less fov, that's not a problem if I can't see all of the EIIs fov due to deep set eyes.

The only way to try them will be to order them by mail and give them a go.
Time to sell some roofs I don't use and try some top quality porros.

Like most forums on "The Innertubes" this is a place to share info (not hide it). When would be get the idea that linking is a bad idea?

Anyhow that's a great article and I think worth anyones time to read it (and I thank Martin for posting the link earlier as I hadn't seen this one before). Makes me want to buy his book

Kevin Purcell said:

Like most forums on "The Innertubes" this is a place to share info (not hide it). When would be get the idea that linking is a bad idea?

Anyhow that's a great article and I think worth anyones time to read it (and I thank Martin for posting the link earlier as I hadn't seen this one before). Makes me want to buy his book

Click to expand...

Hi Kevin,
It wasn't me that posted it, it was Ceasar. I don't want to steal his thunder.
I am asking Santa for Brin Best's book.

[QU0TE=Martin Fagg;1658207]Hi Kevin,
It wasn't me that posted it, it was Ceasar. I don't want to steal his thunder.
I am asking Santa for Brin Best's book.[/QUOTE]

It is a great book! Unusual format. You can open it anywhere and be entertained. 4 page Bibliography. It even quotes and credits a gentleman from Holland who posts here frequently! ISBN 978-1-904841-03-6. Published by Biosphere Publications, West Yorkshire, UK.

I got mine here in the states from Deutsche Optik. It is autographed by the author. www.deutscheoptik.com. Click on "Bookshelf."

"The binocular cannot only become part of the eyes, it can become part of the heart too'" Anonymous (from the Dedication)

Cordially,
Bob

Until recently I also followed the herd. U was uused to use roofs and whem buying new bins, just looking at roofs. A while a go, I was in for an upgrade. So I took a look at various bins, all roof and couldn't find the real deal. Most them are way to small for my big hands. I kept looking at the nice Leica', Zeiss and Swarovski bins from which I knew I couldn't afford them. After making a selection I came to 2 bins. The Nikon Monarch and the Bushnell Legend Ultra. Both 8 x 42. They also aren't for free and also they didn't fit my requirement completly. Just not enough light trough these bins fo what I like.
Weeks gone by thinking what to do. I the mean time I bought a 10x50 Nikon Action EX porro for my father in Law, which I personnaly like very much. Actually better then the Monarch and Legend Ultra. So I went back to the shop en went to look at a porro bin.
Suddenly a top 3 bin comes within my budget. I had some doubts on the porro because of the lack of being waterproof. So I tried some big and heavy 8x56 roofs but kept an eye on the porro's. Actually I really liked the Nikon Monarch 8x56. But also tried the habicht series. The 8x30 is way to short for my big, long and also broad hands. So my hands came in front of the front lenses. The 10x42 were not suited for me, I'm just to shakey for a comfortable view. Finally the 7x42 fitted like a glove. Even with my glasses on. No problems with tunnelview or what so ever. The great shop where I bought the Habicht gave me a lens cover for a SLC 42 so I can keep the rubber socket down.
Then you should make a choice between the black leather of the green rubber version.
That's easy; the black leather look so nice and classic.

So for me; a Habicht porro is the bin to beat. Not by any other 7x42.

Malloot said:

Until recently I also followed the herd. U was uused to use roofs and whem buying new bins, just looking at roofs. A while a go, I was in for an upgrade. So I took a look at various bins, all roof and couldn't find the real deal. Most them are way to small for my big hands. I kept looking at the nice Leica', Zeiss and Swarovski bins from which I knew I couldn't afford them. After making a selection I came to 2 bins. The Nikon Monarch and the Bushnell Legend Ultra. Both 8 x 42. They also aren't for free and also they didn't fit my requirement completly. Just not enough light trough these bins fo what I like.
Weeks gone by thinking what to do. I the mean time I bought a 10x50 Nikon Action EX porro for my father in Law, which I personnaly like very much. Actually better then the Monarch and Legend Ultra. So I went back to the shop en went to look at a porro bin.
Suddenly a top 3 bin comes within my budget. I had some doubts on the porro because of the lack of being waterproof. So I tried some big and heavy 8x56 roofs but kept an eye on the porro's. Actually I really liked the Nikon Monarch 8x56. But also tried the habicht series. The 8x30 is way to short for my big, long and also broad hands. So my hands came in front of the front lenses. The 10x42 were not suited for me, I'm just to shakey for a comfortable view. Finally the 7x42 fitted like a glove. Even with my glasses on. No problems with tunnelview or what so ever. The great shop where I bought the Habicht gave me a lens cover for a SLC 42 so I can keep the rubber socket down.
Then you should make a choice between the black leather of the green rubber version.
That's easy; the black leather look so nice and classic.

So for me; a Habicht porro is the bin to beat. Not by any other 7x42.

Click to expand...

I'm glad to hear from some fellow "porromaniacs"! We are becoming an "endangered species," it seems.

I'm surprised the 45* AFOV doesn't seem tunnelesque to you. I feel claustrophobic even with 50* AFOV.

In porros, 7x42s have smallish FsOV.

Same reason why I passed on the Swift 7x42 Ultralite (7* FOV = 49* AFOV).

Why manufacturers can make 7x42 roofs that boast a 56* AFOV (Swaro SLC), but can't seem to get past 49* AFOV on porros, I don't know.

Traditionally, porros have been known for the larger FsOV than roofs, but not in this configuration.

So my desire for the ease of view of a 7x42, easier to steady 7x bin, and larger exit pupil has led me toward roofs even though I prefer porros - easier for me to hold with my larger hands, and I like the 3-D effect better.

One my favorite binoculars is my 1980s Japanese made Nikon 7x35 Action WF with 9.3* FOV.

Very easy view with outstanding DOF, but the coatings are outdated. The ER is also tight.

If Nikon updated the coatings and an increased the ER, these would be almost as good as any 7x42 roof out there for $1,500 more.

But the Nikon 7x35 Action EX isn't up to par with the older model, too much edge distortion.

The 7x35 WF has a very wide sweet spot and gradually falls off at the edges so there's no awareness of "fuzzy edges" like on the Chinese-made EX series.

In any case, thanks for posting those comments, and I'm glad YOU are happy with your new Swaros!

Maloot,
European have have access to a couple of fine Porros that are not available in the US: The Nikon E2, and the Swaro Habicht. This is a bummer.

Widest field possible seems to be the preference of almost all binocular users, but I can understand your satisfaction with the narrow field. I use astronomical telescopes in my other pursuit, often with "orthoscopic" eyepieces, which have apparent fields of 40deg, my narrowest is acutally 38deg now that is like looking through a straw. But 45deg seems not bad at all to me, 50-55deg absolutely perfect, and with the 65deg of most premium binoculars, I feel just a bit lost in there. Borders, limits, there's something cozy and secure about them. Wide fields are usually problematic in one way or another--blurred, prone to blackout, or dim from undersized prisms. They serve a purpose however, enabling easier acquisition of the target, especially a moving target.

I can believe the 7x42 Habicht is optically stunning, and that the field is sufficient, and I am envious! It must have image quality similar to my 7x50 Fujinon, but in an ultralight and convenient package. I just wish I knew where to get my hands on one.
Ron

My previous bins (8x42) had a FOV of 105 meters, the Habicht 114 meters. So the FOV made a big improvement for me. And since I used those old ones for over 5 years and also I my bins before that where cheap a Bresser 7x50 Porro any Bin was a big step forward.

But I can imagine that when you are used to use the the roofs of top 3 bins, a habicht might be a step back. But for me, it is just like they turned on the light and painted all the birds, before most of them where dark silhouets.

My dream bins are still the Leica 8x50 and Swarovski 8x56, but the are financially way out of reach. The ultimate bins would be a lightweight, fogproof, 7or8 x 50 porro. But those don't exist. I prefer porro because of their ergonomics. I find them way more comfotable to handle oppose to roofs. A feature which is, off course, very depending on the person using them.


Dear Ron,

Just like we can buy anything online from the states you should be able to buy anything online from Europe? If you are intrested, I can give you some links to some dutch webshops. Most dutch people do speak a little bit english, so that shouldn't be the problem.

Kevin Purcell said:

Makes me want to buy his book

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You should - it is, in fact, well written, carefully researched and, for anyone fascinated by binoculars, exceptionally interesting.

Malloot said:

My previous bins (8x42) had a FOV of 105 meters, the Habicht 114 meters. So the FOV made a big improvement for me. And since I used those old ones for over 5 years and also I my bins before that where cheap a Bresser 7x50 Porro any Bin was a big step forward.

But I can imagine that when you are used to use the the roofs of top 3 bins, a habicht might be a step back. But for me, it is just like they turned on the light and painted all the birds, before most of them where dark silhouets.

My dream bins are still the Leica 8x50 and Swarovski 8x56, but the are financially way out of reach. The ultimate bins would be a lightweight, fogproof, 7or8 x 50 porro. But those don't exist. I prefer porro because of their ergonomics. I find them way more comfotable to handle oppose to roofs. A feature which is, off course, very depending on the person using them.

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Malloot,

There are always trade offs but in terms of raw image quality, the Habicht doesn't seem to be too far a step back from top roofs, particularly when you consider the staggering price differences.

Did you read Holger's review where he compares the 7x42 Habicht to two German-made roofs?

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/swaro7x42.html

After using narrow field bins, if you ever looked through a Nikon 8x30 EII with its W-I-D-E 8.8* FOV, you might get agoraphobia (fear of open spaces)!

While it's true what Ron said about the trade-offs with most WF bins, the EII is the exception to the rule.

It does have a just a bit more pincushion than I would ideally like, but the sweet spot is quite ample for such a WF bin, and the fall of at the edges is so gradual I have no sense of fuzzy edges when I pan, and there are no blackouts like the SE.

If there are shortcomings its the short body, which users with large hands might find a bit hard to hold, but this is easily remedied by adding Bushwacker objective covers, and the 13.5mm ER, which would not be suitable for eyeglass wearers, however, with the very wide FOV, someone with close fitting glasses and flat facial features could still see a good portion of the view.

As far as resolution, I bet it would match or exceed any premium 8x30/2 roof out there.

Being that you live almost 12* N latitude higher than I do, I would imagine light levels drop low in the late fall and winter.

It gets fairly dim here too in the late fall with an almost constant cloud cover, which doesn't let up until temps drop well below freezing.

I also like to watch nocturnal flying squirrels and owls.

So I can understand your desire for larger exit pupil and larger objective binoculars for birding.

A "big eyes" porro I would highly recommend is the Carl Zeiss Jena/Docter Nobilem 8x50.

At 7.4* FOV, the view is expansive enough to be comfortable for me, and the 7" by 8" body with its flat prism housing bottoms provide great support for my thumbs, something that most roofs fail to do, and the well balanced frame makes the 45 oz. weight feel lighter than it is.

If not for the recession, I would still have my pair.

Here's a review by Holger Merlitz:
http://www.holgermerlitz.de/zeiss8x50.html

Docter no longer makes the 8x50, they make an 8x56. The FOV is smaller than the 8x50s (6.4* vs. 7.4*), but since you are not bothered by tunnel vision, it would probably suit you.

The downside is that it's much heavier than the Habicht, but if you want more glass and a robust build, that's the burden you will have to pay.

Here's a review of the Docter 8x56:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarch...0715/page/6/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

brocknroller said:

Malloot,

A "big eyes" porro I would highly recommend is the Carl Zeiss Jena/Docter Nobilem 8x50.

At 7.4* FOV, the view is expansive enough to be comfortable for me, and the 7" by 8" body with its flat prism housing bottoms provide great support for my thumbs, something that most roofs fail to do, and the well balanced frame makes the 45 oz. weight feel lighter than it is.

If not for the recession, I would still have my pair.

Here's a review by Holger Merlitz:
http://www.holgermerlitz.de/zeiss8x50.html

Docter no longer makes the 8x50, they make an 8x56. The FOV is smaller than the 8x50s (6.4* vs. 7.4*), but since you are not bothered by tunnel vision, it would probably suit you.

The downside is that it's much heavier than the Habicht, but if you want more glass and a robust build, that's the burden you will have to pay.

Here's a review of the Docter 8x56:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarch...0715/page/6/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

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Thanks for your extensive reply. The TS should be convinced be now to buy a Habicht.

I considered the Docter 8x56 porro. But there where a view reasons not buying them or prefering the Habicht. The Weight, I'm quite a wanderer. Optics go before weight and the optics of the Habicht might be slightly better. I couln't compare them next to each other at the same time. Availability. The Docters are quite hard to find overhere. Waterproofing, as far as I know the Habichts are the only really waterproof porro's. The Docters aint. Warranty. Probably you don't need any warranty for both of them, but if you need them Swarovski is unbeatable. If anything to the Habicht happens I wil get instantly a new similar or better bin for the duration of the repair.

Malloot said:

Thanks for your extensive reply. The TS should be convinced be now to buy a Habicht.

I considered the Docter 8x56 porro. But there where a view reasons not buying them or prefering the Habicht. The Weight, I'm quite a wanderer. Optics go before weight and the optics of the Habicht might be slightly better. I couln't compare them next to each other at the same time. Availability. The Docters are quite hard to find overhere. Waterproofing, as far as I know the Habichts are the only really waterproof porro's. The Docters aint. Warranty. Probably you don't need any warranty for both of them, but if you need them Swarovski is unbeatable. If anything to the Habicht happens I wil get instantly a new similar or better bin for the duration of the repair.

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Docter bins are not that easy to find over here either. I haven't checked into the warranty terms, but my concern would be where are they serviced? In the US or Germany?

Okay, okay, you convinced me. I'm going to buy a Swaro!

I never did get around to taking the labels off the pig's feet jars, so all I need to do is cross out the SWARO new EL and write in SWARO...

Habicht... no, SLC.... no, Habicht... no, SLC... no, Habicht....no, SLC...

Habicht... no, SLC.... no, Habicht... no, SLC... no, Habicht....no, SLC...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

If there are shortcomings its the short body, which users with large hands might find a bit hard to hold, but this is easily remedied by adding Bushwacker objective covers, and the 13.5mm ER, which would not be suitable for eyeglass wearers, however, with the very wide FOV, someone with close fitting glasses and flat facial features could still see a good portion of the view.

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Fo information; I wear glasses and I can see the whole field of view through my EIIs.(8x30).

Paul