Regarding Nikon Se (2 Viewers)

Pileatus · Jul 30, 2013

SE's are not completely sealed and will, over time, collect dust and debris internally. If dust can be pumped in through the bellows action of the focus then smoke particles, atomized oils, and everything else floating in the atmosphere will eventually find its way inside. It's the main reason porro owners of the past sent their binoculars in for a cleaning. I've done this twice to heavily used SE's.

The first time I compared a new 550 to a 504 and 505 I saw a small difference in brightness. The 504/505 bins were virtually identical; the 550 let a bit more light through. My comparison was conducted indoors under varying degrees of lighting. I simply dimmed the lights until the 504/505 bins no longer delivered the minute detail I was looking for. At that point, the 550 showed me what I was after but just barely. I repeated the comparison outside at dawn and dusk. I concluded that all SE's, in good working order, were phenomenal optical instruments. I continued using my 504, knowing the 550 would be quite happy sitting in a box under my desk. Someday soon it may find a new owner!

Torview · Jul 30, 2013

I remember posting a thread sometime ago titled SE Nausea, it seemed to me, an SE virgin at the time that this old porro could`nt be that good, well Ill eat my humble pie now.

The more time I spend using it the more I see "characteristics" in other (pretty high end) bins when I get to try them, that might well have gone unnoticed had I not bought and used an SE.

Someone on here once wrote that the SE shows how a good optic should be, I know what was meant.

Tantien · Jul 30, 2013

ceasar said:
The serial number beginning with 50 indicates that they are indeed of "old stock."

If you got documents with the binocular it should have a "Product Guide" and also include an Instruction Sheet (Manual) and a Nikon Product Registration Card. The Product Guide has the specifications for the 3 versions of the SE in it. There is a photo of an 8 x 32SE in it and it should show the SN on it to be 500003. You can read it on the photograph.

It is possible that these have the old Lead Glass in their optics.
Bob

Thanks Bob: I checked and this specific Guide is indeed is what I have.

So, regarding the old Lead Glass; is this a good thing, optically (that it has the lead glass)?

I might have seen some other thread that mentioned that this change from lead to lead-free glass. So was this change a good change or did it require additional coatings to compensate?

i.e. What actually changed optically?

I'm also curious if other manufacturers switched to lead-free glass at about the same time for similar reasons.

ceasar · Jul 30, 2013

Tantien said:
Thanks Bob: I checked and this specific Guide is indeed is what I have.

So, regarding the old Lead Glass; is this a good thing, optically (that it has the lead glass)?

I might have seen some other thread that mentioned that this change from lead to lead-free glass. So was this change a good change or did it require additional coatings to compensate?

i.e. What actually changed optically?

I'm also curious if other manufacturers switched to lead-free glass at about the same time for similar reasons.

It is hard to be certain about when this happened in particular SEs. We know when Nikon switched over to Eco Glass but it's hard to tell when it became part of specific models. I've never seen anything about when other manufacturers switched.

As for the changes that took place; here is a Bird Forum discussion about ED Glass and SEs. It also includes discussions about Lead Glass in the SEs. Go to threads #3 and #6 and read Brock's contribution. It's probably the best you will find on this issue although there are others throughout this forum. Finding them is the problem. Overall it seems there is a consensus that the old lead glass SEs controlled CA very well.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=163047

Here is another one on lead glass. There are some real experts commenting here.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=163159

Bob

Tantien · Jul 30, 2013

ceasar said:
It is hard to be certain about when this happened in particular SEs. We know when Nikon switched over to Eco Glass but it's hard to tell when it became part of specific models. I've never seen anything about when other manufacturers switched.

As for the changes that took place; here is a Bird Forum discussion about ED Glass and SEs. It also includes discussions about Lead Glass in the SEs. Go to threads #3 and #6 and read Brock's contribution. It's probably the best you will find on this issue although there are others throughout this forum. Finding them is the problem. Overall it seems there is a consensus that the old lead glass SEs controlled CA very well.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=163047

Here is another one on lead glass. There are some real experts commenting here.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=163159

Bob

Thanks Bob. I didn't realize that many (especially Brock) had discussed this topic over so many years.

I'm still trying these SEs out and will write a review eventually.

I've also cancelled my open order with Optic Planet for the other SE's. I've run across that dreaded "wife tolerance" threshold and cannot continue to feed my obsession without either selling everything towards a set of Swarovskis or settling for permanent, head-shaking, disbelief over why one pair is not enough.

Truth be told, I can see me selling my Diamondbacks because I now have 5 pairs of 8X binoculars and I need to "thin the herd".

Thank goodness I'm the one earning the money!

Sancho · Jul 30, 2013

Tantien said:
I've run across that dreaded "wife tolerance" threshold and cannot continue to feed by obsession without either selling everything towards a set of Swarovskis or settling for permanent, head-shaking, disbelief over why one pair is not enough.

Cross the Threshold, Tantien, to the new dimension. Soon, you will be One of Us! (The downside is we´re not allowed to have beer or new shoes....ever.)

Pinewood · Jul 30, 2013

Tantien said:
Thank goodness I'm the one earning the money!

Hello Tantien,

You may find that attitude is no excuse. Does not your state have a community property principle?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur hi:

Tantien · Jul 30, 2013

Sancho said:
Cross the Threshold, Tantien, to the new dimension. Soon, you will be One of Us! (The downside is we´re not allowed to have beer or new shoes....ever.)

No!! Don't throw me into that new dimension! Please not that! Take away my beer and shoes but don't throw me into that new dimension!

3

(For those who didn't get the reference: Read the very short fable Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby )

Tantien · Jul 30, 2013

Pinewood said:
Hello Tantien,

You may find that attitude is no excuse. Does not your state have a community property principle?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur hi:

Oh now that give me pause.
.
.
.
OK it's over!

It's actually "fear of the couch" or "fear of no dinner ever again" that keeps me in line. Hehe! :-O

mulligatawny owl · Jul 31, 2013

Just spent a good half hour comparing the 505 and my new 550 SE's and have given myself a headache trying to see any difference at all. Hardly a very thorough test I admit,just looking at trees and detail in bark and such but I cant for the life of me see any difference whatsoever, both equally bright ( quite noticeably brighter than the EII) and just as sharp as each other ( sometimes I think the EII's might just possibly be minutely sharper) Focus is quite a bit smoother on my new SE's though and the central hinge is a little less tight too.

Who knows I may change my mind yet ( kind of not unknown with me) but for now its settled that nagging doubt I had that my 505 SE's might not be as good as the 550's.

Please don't anyone tell me now that 504's or something are best! This binocular obsession gets a bit exhausting and expensive and I'm done...for now.

Tantien · Jul 31, 2013

Image Resolution Poster

So I got just a little more scientific and found this attached poster that allows me to more objectively compare actual resolutions between binoculars in A/B tests.

Printed out on a simple 8x11 sheet and hung across the room, the Nikon SE again clearly shows what a sharper view it has over the Viper HDs. Again the SE's are brighter and the fine lines within this poster are much more clearly resolved than the Viper. I can see how they have achieved HD quality without needing to claim HD or ED glass, etc.

Taking the SE's out yesterday, I did try to assess CA and how flat their field-flattening technology worked on vertical white flagpoles in bright sunlight. There certainly was a small amount of CA that increased as you moved the pole towards the edge of the field. The poles also did a significant amount of bowing as I moved them across the field (I'm actually not sure if this is pincushioning or the rolling ball effect, I've heard of--please correct me if i'm wrong or if this effect occurs for all binoculars, alpha or not).

The next step would be to take this same poster and put it out on a sunny day to again assess how the CA would affect viewing this poster.

Overall, I'm not that sensitive to the CA and I am not looking at white vertical poles 99.9% when birding, so these effects are more technical than affecting me in practice.

Finally, the SEs are (for me) more finicky about their eye placement to avoid the blacking/shadows, especially with my glasses on; less so without glasses. Using the MOLCET technique does help. But with glasses on, that puts more pressure on the glasses lens and is less effective for me.

With their squat stubby size, real high definition, solid comfortable feel and noticeable brightness, I can see how these have attained their legendary status and do plan to keep them for a very long time.

steve@37n84w · Jul 31, 2013

mulligatawny owl said:
Just spent a good half hour comparing the 505 and my new 550 SE's and have given myself a headache trying to see any difference at all. Hardly a very thorough test I admit,just looking at trees and detail in bark and such but I cant for the life of me see any difference whatsoever, both equally bright ( quite noticeably brighter than the EII) and just as sharp as each other ( sometimes I think the EII's might just possibly be minutely sharper) Focus is quite a bit smoother on my new SE's though and the central hinge is a little less tight too.

Who knows I may change my mind yet ( kind of not unknown with me) but for now its settled that nagging doubt I had that my 505 SE's might not be as good as the 550's.

Please don't anyone tell me now that 504's or something are best! This binocular obsession gets a bit exhausting and expensive and I'm done...for now.

I have spent a lot of time comparing my 505 and 550 SEs (including a lot of side be side resolution testing using an ISO_12233 chart) and can discern NO difference in sharpness.

The only minute difference I can see is that the 550 has an ever so slight warmer color balance. I don't know if the warmer color balance is a result of newer coatings and/or the use of Eco glass on the 550 series. The difference in very slight but I can notice it when watching male house finches at the feeders.

Steve

ceasar · Jul 31, 2013

Sancho said:
Cross the Threshold, Tantien, to the new dimension. Soon, you will be One of Us! (The downside is we´re not allowed to have beer or new shoes....ever.)

How many pairs of shoes does your wife own?:smoke:

Huh?

Why don't you ask her next time this comes up?3

Bob

Sancho · Jul 31, 2013

ceasar said:
How many pairs of shoes does your wife own?:smoke:

More than Imelda Marcos had in her wildest dreams, Bob. (I wonder if President Marcos was allowed any binoculars?)

jaymoynihan · Jul 31, 2013

Tantien said:
I didn't realize that many ... had discussed this topic over so many years....

I am not aware of a similar mass of discussion about any other binocular model/line. To some it might seem :eek!: ...

But of course, if you get them, and do not have the blackout problem, ...well

Tantien · Aug 1, 2013

jaymoynihan said:
I am not aware of a similar mass of discussion about any other binocular model/line. To some it might seem :eek!: ...

But of course, if you get them, and do not have the blackout problem, ...well

Jay: I actually found megathread on this model, a BF thread called 8x32 SE? from 2009 that is longer than this one. :eek!:

If I recall you may have been on that thread.

And they were talking about almost the same things (the demise of the SE, the coatings, serial numbers, dates of manufacture, comparisons, etc. etc.) with Brock waxing way poetic in a very nice, ebullient, and detailed review! |:d|

I gave up reading (fatigue) after page 4! And there are 12 pages! We optiholics do love to talk about our stuff....

Every old SE is new again. o

NDhunter · Aug 1, 2013

mulligatawny owl said:
Just spent a good half hour comparing the 505 and my new 550 SE's and have given myself a headache trying to see any difference at all. Hardly a very thorough test I admit,just looking at trees and detail in bark and such but I cant for the life of me see any difference whatsoever, both equally bright ( quite noticeably brighter than the EII) and just as sharp as each other ( sometimes I think the EII's might just possibly be minutely sharper) Focus is quite a bit smoother on my new SE's though and the central hinge is a little less tight too.

Who knows I may change my mind yet ( kind of not unknown with me) but for now its settled that nagging doubt I had that my 505 SE's might not be as good as the 550's.

Please don't anyone tell me now that 504's or something are best! This binocular obsession gets a bit exhausting and expensive and I'm done...for now.

For what it is worth on the comparisons. Some time ago, I compared
the 504 that I had to a newer 550 ser. #, and I know there was a difference
in coating colors, when viewing the reflection into the objectives.

At that time, I thought the 550 was a bit better, as in brightness, but not by much.
I did not do any serious thought to the changes but I did prefer the
newer one, more pop in the sharpness, and I like that.
Mfrs. are changing and usually improving coatings, Swarovski does it all the time, and does not mention it.
But it is noticeable in their optics also.
The differences between the early 8.5x42 EL and the later versions including
the last year 2009 are evident. These things are very hard to measure but
the nitpickers do see it.

So, I suppose this does not help those wondering, but any of the SE's are
very good, and a great binocular to use.
I have also had the chance to do the same comparisons with the 10x42 SE, and found the same thing with the newer ones.

Jerry

brocknroller · Aug 1, 2013

Tantien said:
Jay: I actually found megathread on this model, a BF thread called 8x32 SE? from 2009 that is longer than this one. :eek!:

If I recall you may have been on that thread.

And they were talking about almost the same things (the demise of the SE, the coatings, serial numbers, dates of manufacture, comparisons, etc. etc.) with Brock waxing way poetic in a very nice, ebullient, and detailed review! |:d|

I gave up reading (fatigue) after page 4! And there are 12 pages! We optiholics do love to talk about our stuff....

Every old SE is new again. o

Yes, I was in rare form that day. I just re-read my post.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1585775&postcount=45

Although someone recently posted that he couldn't see any difference between his 505xxx 8x32 SE and his 550xxx model, I did. Not the one giant leap for mankind that going from the 501 to the 550 was, but to my eyes, a giant step up in contrast and brightness from the 505.

B.R.O.C.K in the USA

mulligatawny owl · Aug 1, 2013

NDhunter said:
For what it is worth on the comparisons. Some time ago, I compared
the 504 that I had to a newer 550 ser. #, and I know there was a difference
in coating colors, when viewing the reflection into the objectives.

At that time, I thought the 550 was a bit better, as in brightness, but not by much.
I did not do any serious thought to the changes but I did prefer the
newer one, more pop in the sharpness, and I like that.
Mfrs. are changing and usually improving coatings, Swarovski does it all the time, and does not mention it.
But it is noticeable in their optics also.
The differences between the early 8.5x42 EL and the later versions including
the last year 2009 are evident. These things are very hard to measure but
the nitpickers do see it.

So, I suppose this does not help those wondering, but any of the SE's are
very good, and a great binocular to use.
I have also had the chance to do the same comparisons with the 10x42 SE, and found the same thing with the newer ones.

Jerry

Was out nightjar watching with the 550 SE's last night and they are indeed amazingly bright for 32mm , this got me thinking that I don't remember the 505's being quite this bright at late dusk so when I got home I did some more comparisons indoors reading print under very dim light but still got the same impressions that they are the identical. Not saying that there are not differences, just that if they are there they must be very subtle indeed and my eyes haven't spotted them yet during testing.

Stanbo · Aug 1, 2013

mulligatawny owl said:
Was out nightjar watching with the 550 SE's last night and they are indeed amazingly bright for 32mm , this got me thinking that I don't remember the 505's being quite this bright at late dusk so when I got home I did some more comparisons indoors reading print under very dim light but still got the same impressions that they are the identical. Not saying that there are not differences, just that if they are there they must be very subtle indeed and my eyes haven't spotted them yet during testing.

I wonder whether these small differences we perceive are more to do with the brain rather than the eyes. Perhaps your sense of wellbeing on the nightjar watch might have affected your brain/eye combination in a different way than viewing a chart under more clinical conditions.

Stan

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