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3 New 8x30 Reviews by Holger Merlitz (1 Viewer)

Thanks John.

My Nikon Monarch HG 8x42 is an early and probably poor example.
It shows very bad glare near the Sun, and I just don't like the binocular.
It also has shiny black instead of matt black inside.

Holger does note side light intrusion. He is testing the Nikon Monarch HG 8x30, which may be much better than my 8x42 HG.
Also being lent A Nikon test sample, Nikon will have chosen a good one.

Because of my bad experience with the Monarch HG 8x42, I would not consider the Monarch HG 8x30.

I find the 8x30 EII much nicer.

However, most seem to like the Monarch HG 8x42 a lot.
I don't know how well the Monarch HG 8x30 is regarded.
 
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LIGHT TRANSMISSION vs PERCEIVED BRIGHTNESS

Habicht vs CL Transmission
It should be noted that Holger assumes that the transmission of the Habicht tested is at the current nominal level of 96%
- see both his introductory comments about the Habicht, and then his appraisal of the relative low light performance
However, as the unit dates from late 2007 (serial number A7745 xxxxx), it’s transmission is somewhat less

As far I’ve been able to determine, there was a significant increase in the Habicht’s transmission to around it’s current levels in mid 2009
Immediately prior to that, it was at the most around 90% (and perhaps as low as ca. 86%, see Gijs van Ginkel’s 2011 test of an undated - but presumedly then recent - 7x42 Habicht: https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/testrapporten/Test-42mm-kijkersMEI-2011.pdf )

In contrast, Gijs shows that the new 8x30 CL’s transmission is at ca. 92%: https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/wp-c...ki-CL-Companion-8x30-en-10x30-dd-dec-2017.pdf

So while the objective transmission of the CL is likely to be slightly higher, the Habicht is clearly perceived by Holger as being brighter

Implications
This yet again reinforces the under appreciated point - that objective transmission does not correspond with subjective brightness - when comparing different optical designs
See both
- my previous comments re Tobias Mennle’s comparative reviews at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=370530
- and Tobias’ suspicion that it’s not the glass and coatings but the the baffling that makes the primary difference

John
 
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Holger does very good reviews, and he does post on here. I wonder where he gets the
transmission numbers.

Jerry
 
Jerry,

The figures are from Swarovski’s Tech Data sheets

John
 

Attachments

  • Habicht (May 15).pdf
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  • CL Companion - New (Jan 17).pdf
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LIGHT TRANSMISSION vs PERCEIVED BRIGHTNESS

Habicht vs CL Transmission
It should be noted that Holger assumes that the transmission of the Habicht tested is at the current nominal level of 96%
- see both his introductory comments about the Habicht, and then his appraisal of the relative low light performance
However, as the unit dates from late 2007 (serial number A7745 xxxxx), it’s transmission is somewhat less

As far I’ve been able to determine, there was a significant increase in the Habicht’s transmission to around it’s current levels in mid 2009
Immediately prior to that, it was at the most around 90% (and perhaps as low as ca. 86%, see Gijs van Ginkel’s 2011 test of an undated - but presumedly then recent - 7x42 Habicht: https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/testrapporten/Test-42mm-kijkersMEI-2011.pdf )

In contrast, Gijs shows that the new 8x30 CL’s transmission is at ca. 92%: https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/wp-c...ki-CL-Companion-8x30-en-10x30-dd-dec-2017.pdf

So while the objective transmission of the CL is likely to be slightly higher, the Habicht is clearly perceived by Holger as being brighter

Implications
This yet again reinforces the under appreciated point - that objective transmission does not correspond with subjective brightness - when comparing different optical designs
See both
- my previous comments re Tobias Mennle’s comparative reviews at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=370530
- and Tobias’ suspicion that it’s not the glass and coatings but the the baffling that makes the primary difference

John


Dear John,

Thank you for your comments! Interesting to know that Swarovski has sent me an outdated test sample, and you are coming to the right conclusion: The Habicht's spectral transmission curve is high at short wavelengths, giving the image a cool hue. This possibly makes the image appear brighter. Apart from that, its low-light visual transmission may in fact be on the high side.

I got the transmission data from the data sheets, and obviously these are daytime visual transmission values.

Cheers,
Holger
 
John Roberts, post 3,
The transmission values of 86% for the 7x42 Habicht you mention in your post was from an older 7x42 Habicht. In a test from 2016 I have published data from more recent 7x42's and among them a 7x42 Habicht from 2014, which showed transmission values of 94-95% . You can find the last test report mentioned on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor in a test of different 7x42 binoculars (scroll a little bit lower on the test report list).
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Gijs

I’ve previously looked at your work in some detail, and I’m aware that recently tested Habichts (both 8x30W and 7x42)
consistently show transmission values of around 94 to 96% in the 500 and 555 nm ranges

The earliest test which features such readings is for an 8x30W unit, and is dated November 2011:
https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/test..._Swarovski_en_Zeiss_kijkers_november_2011.pdf

However, bearing in mind that Holger’s test unit dates from late 2007, the question remains:
When was the current high level first achieved?

It would be interesting to know the serial number/ date of the 86% transmission/ 7x42 unit used in your May 2011 test
i.e. is it consistent with my assumption that it would necessarily date from early 2009 at the latest?

I checked back through the tests I’ve previously downloaded, and I found an earlier English language version of the May 2011 test
It’s dated August 2010 - so we’re getting close to the possibility of the unit being at the latest, early 2009 production
n.b. I couldn’t find the English version on the current web site

John
 
John Roberts, post 10,
I have not investigated systematicallly how the transmission of Swarovski Habichts developed in time, some answers you may be able to find in the powerpoint about the history of Swarovski optik also present on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
The matter is certainly interesting, so if I can find time I will see into it.
I have doen that once for Leitz-Leica, but that is a fairly long time ago and internet was not so well available yet.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Gijs, Do you recall how old the Habicht 7x42 with 86% transmission was?

John, How did you determine that there was a significant increase in Habicht transmission in mid 2009?

My experience with Habichts over the last 35 years suggests to me that there were only two large changes in the Habicht AR coatings. First was a change from single layer coating to a two layer multi-coating called "Transmax" probably in the early 1980s. Transmax was characterized by a very yellow color bias, presumably because the highest transmission was confined to a narrow band centered in the yellow.

Sometime between about 1995 and 1999 Transmax was dropped in favor of Swarotop, the three layer multi-coating used in the SL, SLC, and EL ranges. My 1999 catalogue states that Habicht models were using Swarotop by then, but a Habicht I purchased in 1995 still had Transmax. Since then I think there have been only unannounced incremental improvements to Swarotop in all Swarovski binoculars. Those improvements might have increased transmission at 550nm by a few percent and probably more in the blue and red, resulting in some increase in perceived brightness and especially the improved color neutrality we see in all Swarovski binoculars now compared to twenty years ago.

Henry
 
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I can't remember exact dates but Minolta achromatic coatings from about 1965 were two layer coating, used on their lenses.

Taylor Taylor Hobson patented a 3 layer coating with tunable middle coat perhaps in 1955? and used it on multi element movie and T.V. lenses about 1960. Maybe 20 to 30 element lenses.

The Liechtenstein firm was using multicoating in quantity production from about 1950?

So why were binoculars so late in using multicoating?

Zeiss were secretly using single hard coats in 1933 and multicoating possibly in the early 1940s.

Kodak hard single coatings were used in quantity production in 1940. Also in shadow factories.

TTH commercially hard single coats at least in 1943 on Xray lenses.

The Ross wide angle Xpres 20 inch 6 element EMI aerial lenses from the early 1950s had very soft internal single blue coatings.

US single coated WW2 binoculars had coatings that asked users not to rub the coatings.
 
I've found no convincing evidence that multi-coating was available in any civilian commercial binocular before Zeiss introduced the first T* in 1978.
 
I thought that maybe Gijs mentioned Balzers of Liechtenstein multicoating Porroprism binoculars much earlier than 1978.
They did this for a binocular maker, who sent them the optical components.

The 1933 Zeiss single layer coatings may not have been that hard as they were applied to inner surfaces.
 
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Henry (post #12),

I believe Transmax was introduced before the 1980s. My 10x40 Habicht from the early 1970s (purchased around 1975) shows the strong yellow color bias you mention.

Canip
 
Hi Canip,

Transmax before T* would be a surprise. Maybe we can confirm your observation by comparing the reflection colors returning from your 1975 10x40 to my 1990 8x30. Tomorrow I'll try to photograph the reflections returning from the front of mine next to a single coated Zeiss/west 8x30B. The image in both looks yellow, but the reflection color returning from the Habicht (especially the prisms) is a very highly saturated rosy magenta I've never seen return from a single layer coating.

Even better would be some Swarovski literature from the 70s that mentions Transmax. The oldest Swarovski brochure I have is from 1982.

Henry
 
Hello All,

In the next few days I’ll get my notes together and then post a new thread in the Swarovski forum about their anti-reflective coatings

But first to address a few points that have been raised:

A) the primary coating used on Swarovski products from 1948 to 1982 was a dual layer coating
It is commonly referred to as DV coating from the marking used on binoculars until 1962 (DV = doppel vergutung i.e. ‘double coated’)

B) single layer coating was only used on the Falke line of binoculars, and variations, from 1956 to 1968
The standard marking is EV, with a variant of V (EV = einfache vergutung i.e. ‘single coated’)
The coating was the first layer of the DV coating

C) multicoating - 3 layer coating - was first used on the AZF 30x75 drawtube telescope from it’s introduction in 1967 to 1983
The coating is known as Iralin and the name was prominently marked on the units. It was not used on any other products

D) and what we consider Swarovski’s modern multicoating - Swarotop - was generally introduced on all product lines in 1982

However, there were exceptions to D)
From around 1980 to the start of 1991, Swarovski used a more intense version of the DV coating, which was called Transmax, on both:
- the Traditional line of Porro prism binoculars
- and Metric pattern telescopic sights (Imperial pattern sight had Swarotop coating from their introduction in 1985)


ORIGINS
Both Swarovski’s dual layer coating, and it’s early multicoating, originated with the company Optics Balzers AG of Lichtenstein:
- in 1955, they commercially introduced ‘Transmax’, a dual layer anti-reflective coating
- and in 1965, they introduced ‘Iralin’, a broadband anti-reflective coating
See: https://www.opticsbalzers.com/en/company/about-us/history.html

In addition, the name Transmax was also used in some early Swarovski advertising. See the attached text from a 1955 brochure
[ it’s from page 58 of Eine kurze Geschichte der Optik (‘A short History of Optics’) by Johannes Kern and Tea Barac, dated 2013
this is a thesis paper that was originally available on the web site of the College of Optometry at Hall Austria: https://www.phtla-hall.tsn.at/content/allgemeines
It is currently available at: https://www.yumpu.com/de/document/v...ichte-der-optik-private-htl-des-landes-tirol- ]

If one of our German speaking posters could provide a clear translation I’d be grateful
I transcribed the text, and put it through Google Translate but due to the technical language used the results were unsatisfactory


USE OF DV COATING
It seems to me that the point of using DV coating was that:
- it distinguished the products of Swarovski as a new optical company, from those of its rivals, especially the long established Zeiss and Leica
- in the immediate post-WWII period it was start-of-the-art technology, and
- it provided more transmission, though at the cost of a necessarily more tinted image
At the time, Swarovski seems to have concentrated primarily on the traditional European hunting market, rather than either the North American one,
or the emerging world wide birding market

I’ve attached a pair of diagrams that show the relative performance of single, DV and Iralin coatings
They are from pages 439 and 442 of Coatings on Glass by H.K. Pulker, which is available in various forms on the ‘net (Pulker was an Optics Balzers employee)


USE OF TRANSMAX IN THE 1980’s
Swarovski had introduced the SL series of Porro prism binoculars in 1980
Compared to the Traditional line of Porro prism binoculars, they featured:
- innovative design and production techniques
- fogproofing
- modern styling and materials
- and Swarotop coating (though I don’t think from the 1980 introduction, but within the first few years)

The use of Transmax may have been thought of as a way to further differentiate between the two Porro prism lines
However, the distinction was somewhat diminished, as Swarovski updated the Traditional line by:
- introducing the new fogproof model in 1984
- and then using Swarotop coating from 1991

I hope the above helps clarify some of the points raised in this thread

John
 

Attachments

  • per 1955 brochure.pdf
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  • Combined (pp. 439 & 442).jpg
    Combined (pp. 439 & 442).jpg
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henry, post 12,
No I do not know how old the 7x42 Habicht was that was used in the test report, I have to look into it and I will come back. A transmission value of 86% for porro binoculars produced in the period 1980-1990 is quite common and the Habichts are even older than that.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Hi Canip,

Transmax before T* would be a surprise. Maybe we can confirm your observation by comparing the reflection colors returning from your 1975 10x40 to my 1990 8x30. Tomorrow I'll try to photograph the reflections returning from the front of mine next to a single coated Zeiss/west 8x30B. The image in both looks yellow, but the reflection color returning from the Habicht (especially the prisms) is a very highly saturated rosy magenta I've never seen return from a single layer coating.

Even better would be some Swarovski literature from the 70s that mentions Transmax. The oldest Swarovski brochure I have is from 1982.

Henry

Henry,

I don't know whether we are talking about the same thing, so I just attach 3 different photos of reflections from a LED type lamp on the objective lenses :

- IMG 1729 shows a Habicht 10x40 produced in 2018
- IMG 1730 shows my Habicht 10x40 produced in 2013
- IMG 1731 shows my Habicht 10x40 from the mid 1970s
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1729.pdf
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  • IMG_1730 .pdf
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  • IMG_1731.pdf
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