• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

New Ultravids coming (1 Viewer)

So much speculation, mine included. Here's my commitment to test:

I have placed an order for first instock availability for the 10x32 HD. It's my preferred configuration, and I currently have the 10x32 Ultravid (just 1 year old, Damn!). I'm told they're due sometime in October/November. Upon delivery I will have the opportunity to test the two side by side. Until such time as others also have an opportunity to compare and test the two models, or any two of identical configuration, I respectfully submit that we'll all just have to wait and see if improvements are marginal, significant or magnificent.
 
Ace Cameras are listing them as follows:

Leica Ultravid 8x32 HD Binocular GBP1210.00
Leica Ultravid 10x32 HD Binocular GBP1280.00
Leica Ultravid 7x42 HD Binocular GBP1280.00
Leica Ultravid 8x42 HD Binocular GBP1350.00
Leica Ultravid 10x42 HD Binocular GBP1420.00
Leica Ultravid 8x50 HD Binocular GBP1350.00
Leica Ultravid 10x50 HD Binocular GBP1420.00
Leica Ultravid 12x50 HD Binocular GBP1570.00

That means that the 8x32 is more twice the price of a Nikon 8x32 HGL which they have at GBP549. I can't believe that they are twice as good.

Incidentally, there's limited stocks of the Nikons. Could that mean new Nikons on the way?
 
That's right trealawboy, they ain't. Just like the potatoes you bought yesterday at half the price aren't twice as bad. It's called the law of diminishing returns.

Renze

Renze,

Yes, but yesterday's Burbank Russet potatoes are not as tasty as today's Yukon Gold potatoes. For Continental tastes there must be a difference between ordinary spuds and French fingerlings. The question is how much the consumer, of either binoculars or of potatoes, is willing to pay for marginal but real improvements. In this case, the difference may be in markedly improved color, not in an appreciable difference in chromatic aberration.

We need more data!

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :brains:
 
That means that the 8x32 is more twice the price of a Nikon 8x32 HGL which they have at GBP549. I can't believe that they are twice as good.

Incidentally, there's limited stocks of the Nikons. Could that mean new Nikons on the way?

I remember when the Nikons (42mm) were first shown at the Birdfair with a list price of £1400 and gasping quite a few years ago.

I said at the time the price would have to come down to compete with the others.

I wonder if these Leicas will come down after awhile.

It would be interesting to see what Nikon could produce if they put dielectric coatings and ed lenses in their Bins and expanded their range.

Nev
 
No, I too cannot see any difference between the Ultravid and the new HD version.

At the birdfair at the Oostvaardersplassen in the Netherlands p/revious weekend, I tried the 12x50 HD and compared with my own, two year old Ultravid 12x50. Despite A-B'ing for a good 15 minutes, I could not tell for sure any optical difference. At a time, I thought that the HD actually had a smidgeon less colour vibrancy actually. But I am absolutely not sure about that. I watched some spoonbills across a lake, but couldn't even provoke my own Ultravid to show any CA, so whether that detail has been improved, I don’t know. My own can be pushed to show some green CA in extreme cases, but it doesn't bother me.

And now to the report everybody is interested in…What about the focus drive - any changes? The answer is yes IMO, at least on the 12x50 HD.

Everyone knows by now that Leica uses a quite different technique than the rest, which yields a fast, liquid like operation. If it is faster than e.g. Zeiss, Swarovski and Nikon, I don’t know, but it feels like it. And with the HD the feel is unchanged. But if this technology could have a back-side of feeling slightly "sticky" to some, I think those persons would find the HD to be less so. To me, the show example felt more fluid than my own, old one. And mine, is now more fluid than it was in the beginning. Mind you, I like the Ultravid focus feel and not so much the traditional ones. To me it is like the difference between a race-bicycle and a city bicycle, or a race-bike and a custom bike. Give me the quick steering race bike please! :)
 
Last edited:
I can't believe that they are twice as good.

Hey all,

I don't think I can add anything that the informed consumers haven't already added regarding the bins and specifications proper. However, I hear comments similar to the above all of the time and I would like to add a tangent here that is worthy of consideration (I will qualify to say that I'm not picking on the optic this was used with but just lesser quality optics in general). As a professional birder of 20+ years (and not a Leica employee) I used to think the same way, however my thinking changed after a few valuable real life experiences.

Back in the mid 1980's, I was working as research biologist for anyone that would offer me floor space and a bit of a stipend. The term "meager stipend" was VERY real in my world. For example I made a whopping $150 a month to band hawks in Cape May, NJ (less than I spent in beer let alone food, gas, and other non essentials). At any rate, I can safely say no one was on a tighter budget than I in those days, and when selecting optics (which I used every day, all day) I made these same justifications. Looking at the ~$250 I selected I felt these were near as bright and crisp as anything out there (at least fresh out of the box)!... Certainly not 4x less than the top end models which were a bit over $1000 at this point.

The problem... I was and still am a birder and I use and abuse optics. They are a tool I count on to identify birds and wildlife I see daily and offer pleasing views of those I do. As a birder, when it rained I put on a rain coat and continued to bird. When it was cold and snowy I dressed warmly and birded. However, my (barely) waterproof optics would fog internally and they didn't bounce gracefully. There was no one who could truly mean, "I can not afford high end optics" more than I in those days, but as I prepared to buy my third pair of bins in 5 years time, I realized the $$ I was saving really was no bargain at all.

Are premium optics twice as good as an optic that is built to lower standards or with lower grade materials and weaker seals? In direct comparison, fresh out of the box in a showroom somewhere, perhaps not. But if you buy two or three of these "lesser binocs" to one of the higher grade optics that hold up better and last longer without degradation of image then the answer is a resounding "YES!" Particularly, if you have a notably better image in all real life conditions throughout your time with said optic and are spared undue eye strain over long usage. For example, brilliant views in the dim light of a tropical rain forest understory, or fog free performance in drizzle/snow/fog say in the Aleutian Islands of Alaska.

There is nothing worse than having your "bargain" optic fail on you in the middle of a once in a lifetime trip. I've seen this on multiple ocassions as a professional guide in Alaska. Individuals with hopelessly fogged optics clamoring for the use of some good samaritan's bins so they could at least get a fleeting glimpse of the subject at hand once others had gotten their fill.

All of these experiences as a birder led me to believe that anyone truly interested in birding should always buy the BEST optics their budget will allow and perhaps a bit more. My premium optics I purchased in the late 1980's set me back nearly half a years pay but I used them without fail for the next 14 years in the worst of conditions and the memories of birds and wildlife seen were as sharp and vivid as possible. It was these experiences that shaped my opinion on the need and value of a high end optic long before I ever considered becoming a Leica employee. The latter just allows me to continue birding in the same manner for more money and with the coolest toys around! ;P

Sincerely,

Jeff Bouton
Leica Sport Optics, USA
Leica Birding Blog
www.birdwatchersdigest.com/leica
 
Hi Jeff,

I don't think anyone would dispute your reasoning in comparing the very best optics available with those of significantly or even marginally lesser quality. However, the overall impression I got from the above postings was -- are improvements in the HD line significant enough to justify a "switch over and replace strategy" for those of us already fortunate enough to have the superb Ultravid BR/BL bins from a year or two ago?

Robert / Seattle
 
Hi Jeff,

I don't think anyone would dispute your reasoning in comparing the very best optics available with those of significantly or even marginally lesser quality. However, the overall impression I got from the above postings was -- are improvements in the HD line significant enough to justify a "switch over and replace strategy" for those of us already fortunate enough to have the superb Ultravid BR/BL bins from a year or two ago?

Robert / Seattle

Robert,

But people do make this argument/comparison every day even in this thread, which is why I shared my anecdote in the first place. I think very many people make that leap, ignoring product longevity as a cost benefit. If I had a dollar for every time I heard, '...the view isn't twice as good as brand X...' I'd be happily retired travelling the world birding. As it stands now I have to work while travelling the world birding! ;p

Seriously though, that question can only be answered by each individual. Some will answer yes and buy the product right away of course, but I'd suspect most will not. From my own comments above, the longevity of these products is a benefit. I think most users I know expect to use a premium optic for a long time after purchasing these. As I travel around the country and beyond I regularly see individuals still using 30 year old "Leitz" (Leica) bins at every show I visit (not something I note with other brands!) I wouldn't begin to assume I could sway someone one way or the other here nor would I try. So I purposely didn't enter that conversation as I can't offer anything concrete. The informed consumers have already provided all the facts on the changes as far as I know them.

Regarding the more technical questions, it is clear that 20+ years of experience using binoculars doesn't qualify me to answer the queries of the engineer-minded folks on the list. All I can say is that the Aquadura coating alone will be beneficial to me because I've never had sense enough to get out of the rain, or sea spray, or splash zone of the bow when the birding is good. I tested the prototypes a bit differently than all the others. I let the eyepieces fill with rain water and was able to clear them with a hearty flick of my wrists as I brought them to my eye. As I walked about in the drizzle at Rutland, I gave a hearty, "Brilliant!" as I was able to view my life Garden Warbler without having to stop and wipe the rain drops from my lenses.

Good birding,

Jeff Bouton
Product Specialist - Birder/Naturalist Markets
Leica Sport Optics, USA
 
Robert, ...

... All I can say is that the Aquadura coating alone will be beneficial to me because I've never had sense enough to get out of the rain, or sea spray, or splash zone of the bow when the birding is good. I tested the prototypes a bit differently than all the others. I let the eyepieces fill with rain water and was able to clear them with a hearty flick of my wrists as I brought them to my eye. As I walked about in the drizzle at Rutland, I gave a hearty, "Brilliant!" as I was able to view my life Garden Warbler without having to stop and wipe the rain drops from my lenses.

Good birding,

Jeff Bouton
Product Specialist - Birder/Naturalist Markets
Leica Sport Optics, USA

Jeff,

Thanks for the substantive, and well reasoned, reply. For me personally, noting your remarks on the aquadura coatings (above) would alone suffice (pending funds) to "duplicate" an already superb Ultravid.

Now, what have you heard regarding the possibility of a Duovid HD?

Best,
Robert
 
Hi Jeff,

I don't think anyone would dispute your reasoning in comparing the very best optics available with those of significantly or even marginally lesser quality. However, the overall impression I got from the above postings was -- are improvements in the HD line significant enough to justify a "switch over and replace strategy" for those of us already fortunate enough to have the superb Ultravid BR/BL bins from a year or two ago?

Robert / Seattle

Robert,

But people do make this argument/comparison every day even in this thread, which is why I shared my anecdote in the first place. I think very many people make that leap, ignoring product longevity as a cost benefit. If I had a dollar for every time I heard, '...the view isn't twice as good as brand X...' I'd be happily retired travelling the world birding. As it stands now I have to work while travelling the world birding! ;p

Seriously though, that question can only be answered by each individual. Some will answer yes and buy the product right away of course, but I'd suspect most will not. From my own comments above, the longevity of these products is a benefit. I think most users I know expect to use a premium optic for a long time after purchasing these. As I travel around the country and beyond I regularly see individuals still using 30 year old "Leitz" (Leica) bins at every show I visit (not something I note with other brands!) I wouldn't begin to assume I could sway someone one way or the other here nor would I try. So I purposely didn't enter that conversation as I can't offer anything concrete. The informed consumers have already provided all the facts on the changes as far as I know them.

Regarding the more technical questions, it is clear that 20+ years of experience using binoculars doesn't qualify me to answer the queries of the engineer-minded folks on the list. All I can say is that the Aquadura coating alone will be beneficial to me because I've never had sense enough to get out of the rain, or sea spray, or splash zone of the bow when the birding is good. I tested the prototypes a bit differently than all the others. I let the eyepieces fill with rain water and was able to clear them with a hearty flick of my wrists as I brought them to my eye. As I walked about in the drizzle at Rutland, I gave a hearty, "Brilliant!" as I was able to view my life Garden Warbler without having to stop and wipe the rain drops from my lenses.

Good birding,

Jeff Bouton
Product Specialist - Birder/Naturalist Markets
Leica Sport Optics, USA
 
Jeff,

I think you have an unintentional double reply? (Still curious about my question re Duovid HDs).

Robert


Robert,

There is no present talk about making any changes in the Duovid line at present. Of course we still have a number of unfinished projects on the table now (Ultravid HD, new spotting scopes and accessorries, etc.) that need to reach the "completed" stage before there is any other new projects considered.

Best,

Jeff
 
Robert,

There is no present talk about making any changes in the Duovid line at present. Of course we still have a number of unfinished projects on the table now (Ultravid HD, new spotting scopes and accessorries, etc.) that need to reach the "completed" stage before there is any other new projects considered.

Best,

Jeff


Will there be an HD version of the BL models?
Or will they go extinct?

Regards,
Thomas
 
"I would be far happier if Leica ( or Zeiss, or Swaro ) would come up with a stabilized bin for allround use. "


Hear hear! As far as I'm concerned Canon IS - inferior optics and all - blows Leica away at a fraction of the cost.
 
Considering all the posts so far I'd like to change my opinion regarding the hydrophobic coatings; I realized this IS an absolute improvement, it should render rainguards and objective caps obsolete in bad weather, and 4 lenses less to wipe when out in the rain.

I wonder if these coatings could be applied on all optical equipment : SCOPES too.

Greetings, Ronald
 
"I would be far happier if Leica ( or Zeiss, or Swaro ) would come up with a stabilized bin for allround use. "


Hear hear! As far as I'm concerned Canon IS - inferior optics and all - blows Leica away at a fraction of the cost.

Leica probably could make one but they wouldn't use inferior optics and materials in it's construction or they wouldn't be Leica!

The purchaser would want a wider FOV for use at close to medium range with an objective lens of at least 42mm and a bright and large sweet spot to make it easier to locate and track the bird (think vireo, warbler, empid, etc) as it moves through the cover. It would have to be water proof for use in wet and very humid conditions world wide. And you would have to carry back up batteries and/or a battery charger with you capable of use in different countries. These improvements would only add 16 to 24 ounces to it's weight and an additional $2000.00 or so to it's cost over that of a Canon IS.

There might be a market (albeit small) for it.

Cordially,
Bob
 
Bob and Werewolf,

Inferior optics? Not hardly.

Actually, if we consider the 10x42 Ultravid and the 10x42 Canon IS L, the only optical parameter where the Leica is better, and not by much, is image brightness. The Canon has a wider sweet spot, superior edge resolution, marginally wider viewfield much less CA (that will hopefully change with the HD-Ultravids), and at least equal flare control, contrast and color saturation. It is also waterproof. Current rechargeable cells last for days without charging, and the binocular is fully usable without them if they were to run out and you had no spares.

Where the Ultravids have a clear edge is weight and ergonomics, length of warranty, as well as (probably, here I'm only speculating on the basis of seeing more than a half-dozen but fewer than 20 of each) consistency in quality control. Also, Leicas have traditionally been very durable, and although I don't know much about the durability of the Canons (I have not conducted any drop-testing on them or any other binoculars), just comparing the construction details between them would lead one to assume that the Leicas would stand up to abuse considerably better.

Also, as far as your first point, developing a workable IS system is obviously not an easy undertaking, and it seems that the European brands are reluctant to try to license technology from the Japanese firms. Zeiss has some patents of their own for their mechanical stabilization, but it adds even more weight, puts some restrictions on the optical design, and has at least in the past models been somewhat less than abuse-friendly.

When I get around to testing the new Ultravids, I'll try to make a viable comparison between them and the Canon as well.

I don't think the current Canon models are quite there yet, but my somewhat educated guess is that within some 10-15 years, non-stabilized premium binoculars will be considered a quaint relic from the past - valuable collector's items but not really that suited for serious everyday use.

Kimmo
 
Jeff,

Thanks for the substantive, and well reasoned, reply. For me personally, noting your remarks on the aquadura coatings (above) would alone suffice (pending funds) to "duplicate" an already superb Ultravid.

Best,
Robert

In what way is Leica's Aquadura coating different, better or worse, than the Zeiss LotuTec coating?

In what way is Leica's HD coatings different, better or worse than Zeiss's FL coatings?

Why do I ask? Well it seems to me that when one company releases new and innovative features, the competitors a not far behind in adding these to their own product line. I just strikes me, that Lieca's new Ultravid HD are so much more expensive, than as first mentioned Nikon HGL but most notably the Zeiss FL, which were the first to introduce these two new features in binoculars.

Is there something about being the most expensive that translates into being the best?

I've no doubt at all about the quality of Leica's products or longevity. I remain to be convinced that they are that much better than the other 2 or 3 'top' brands. Especially when one considers the many remarks made on BF regarding the Ultravid's focus.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 16 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top