Questions on Leitz Wetzlar bino missing ep collar Trinovid(?) (1 Viewer)

Patudo · Oct 11, 2019

I can't deny that the appearance, handling and mechanical quality of the old Leitzes are very seductive, but with optics of that vintage one must anticipate that there will be issues that need fixing, even if the binocular's exterior condition is excellent (not really the case with the one in the OP's photos). It's worth remembering that binoculars like this Trinovid could be 30 to over 50 years old - and with optical devices that is a very long time indeed in which issues may develop. Consider dries's note that the seals of the Leica BA/BN series can deteriorate and potentially allow fungus growth inside the binocular. These are binoculars a generation later and designed to be fully sealed. I have purchased, I think, five binoculars from the 1950s-1960s era and four have needed haze or fungus cleaned off their optical surfaces.

It'll be interesting to see what Suddarth's verdict is, and the original poster's opinion once it gets back fully overhauled, as I'm sure it will be (especially in comparison to the Zeiss West 8x30B he's mentioned owning). For what it's worth, pricing-wise, an 8x32 non-B went down to about 179 GBP earlier in the year before selling - so 150 USD doesn't seem unreasonable. But, sweet though the old Trinovids are, I'd be very hesitate to purchase any single-coated, non-phase coated roof binocular (the five purchases mentioned above were all porros), in part because of their complexity and in part because they are just too far behind optically. Then again, if - apparently - one can stick "a cut up Post-it on one of the lenses" and find that "Nobody could tell that there was a big blob on one of the lenses", maybe things like multi-coating and phase-coating (or haze in the prisms...) are but BB stacking... :cat:

Joker9937 · Oct 12, 2019

Thank you all for your replies and advice. Even though I am well aware that the vintage binos are prone to issues, I specifically asked the seller about a known potential problem. They denied that it existed. So, even though I was torn, I finally decided to return them to the seller. They were good enough to refund my money (actually in progress), so I cannot be too hard on them.

If they had been willing to negotiate a return ONLY on the Zeiss, I would have kept the Trinovid. However, since I was dealing with the hazy prisms AND the missing ep collar, I decided that it would be mutually beneficial to return them. To keep the Trinovid, I would have been required to spend nearly $200, once shipping, etc, was included.

I am quite certain that the expense of clearing up the prims would have been that much or more. Meanwhile, I still would have a set without the collar. As has been stated, they are not an "investment", but there are other fish in the sea. For $400-$500, I can find some pretty nice binoculars.

Right, wrong, or otherwise, they are heading back to the seller. Thank you all, again!

Foss · Oct 12, 2019

Wise choice, IMHO. $400-500 should buy a very nice pair of binoculars.
If you have a hankering to pull apart a set, to check out whether bino repair is in your wheelhouse, I'd recommend finding an older pair of Japanese porro prism binoculars (JTII sticker usually indicates decent quality) at a thrift shop/yard sale for $20 or so. You might be able to "tune up" an older set Or (as in my case) break something just trying to take them apart.

YMMV

Joker9937 · Oct 13, 2019

Foss said:
Wise choice, IMHO. $400-500 should buy a very nice pair of binoculars.
If you have a hankering to pull apart a set, to check out whether bino repair is in your wheelhouse, I'd recommend finding an older pair of Japanese porro prism binoculars (JTII sticker usually indicates decent quality) at a thrift shop/yard sale for $20 or so. You might be able to "tune up" an older set Or (as in my case) break something just trying to take them apart.
YMMV

Thanks. Yes, I doubt it will ever be in my wheelhouse, but I have a few junk pairs I have fiddled with. I broke a nice (but, relatively inexpensive set) trying to save a few bucks. Really regret that. Did not want to make that same mistake, and did not want to sink excessive money into them.

Joker9937 · Oct 24, 2019

So, seller refunded my money. Used much of it to buy this set. Hope it was a good purchase. Much better condition. The 6x24 Trinovid.

Patudo · Oct 25, 2019

Congratulations on your new acquisition. Do let us know your thoughts on its mechanical and optical performance once it is safely in hand. I can't deny I have often thought about one, but its desirability (and hence high price) and complicated internal mechanics have always deterred me from buying sight unseen. Yours does look very well preserved and hopefully will be just as perfect internally.

This is the binocular that Leica probably ought to have invested in bringing back, probably more so even than the other classic Trinovids, as to this day there is still nothing quite like it on the market. Imagine what could be done with phase coating, dielectric mirrors, multi-coated glass...

It would cost a mint though. Luckily for the rest of us there is the Kowa 6.5x32 ... now, if someone could only whisper the idea of a 6.5x26 into the ear of someone at Kowa HQ...

Binastro · Oct 25, 2019

The 6x24 is something special.
I don't have one, but I like the 6x24 Amplivid a lot.

B.

ceasar · Oct 25, 2019

Joker9937 said:
So, seller refunded my money. Used much of it to buy this set. Hope it was a good purchase. Much better condition. The 6x24 Trinovid.

It looks like a nice, clean binocular. :t:

Here is the 6x24 shown in Allbinos and it's specs.

https://www.allbinos.com/1635-Leitz_Trinovid_6x24-binoculars_specifications.html

They were made from 1963-1965.

Bob

John Frink · Oct 25, 2019

Joker9937 said:
The 6x24 Trinovid.

In my experience a 6x24 Trinovid with rubber eyecups is quite rare; the one I once had was also in the 775nnn number range.

John

Joker9937 · Oct 25, 2019

Thanks, to all, for your replies. The more I attempt to locate info, the more I realize that these are somewhat uncommon. I'm excited to use them, but after reading some of the info, they might not be daily drivers, as I intended.???

I don't want to inflate their "rarity", but are they deserving of a separate thread?

I read some discussion about the comparison between the leitz 6x24 and the Bushnell Custom Compact 6x25. I now happen to have one of each. I'm just not the most qualified to truly review them. So, keeping this thread is fine by me.

Whatever would benefit the masses, is fine by me.

John A Roberts · Oct 26, 2019

Hi Joker,

I started a thread about the dating of v2 Trinovids a while ago, which was based on my own observations of their numbering and model changes

The thread prompted additional information from:
- Gary Hawkins (an ex-Leica employee) who had published a booklet on Leitz binoculars, including number ranges for the v2 Trinovids, and
- Renze de Vries who provided useful additional information (Renze had been doing much the same as I but for much longer)

One thing that became obvious was that were several production runs of the 6x24's, and yours is from the last dating to around 1972/ 1973
see the last post here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3791913&postcount=56

The main optical limitations are those that generally applied to all roof prisms of the era. The lack of:
- multi-coating (first popularised by Zeiss in 1978 as T* coating)
- phase coating (first introduced by Zeiss in 1988), and
- dielectric prism coating (again a Zeiss innovation dating from 1998; n.b. an exception is that dielectric coating is not needed on Abbe-Koenig prisms)

Consequently compared to current roof prisms, the image is:
- slightly soft (due to the de-phasing),
- less bright and less vibrant (due to the lack of multi-coating and dielectric coating respectively), and
- less clear in high contrast conditions (again the the lack of multi-coating)

Nevertheless, the Trinovids are fascinating artefacts with many desirable attributes, see my comments here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3858554&postcount=13
If kept in context as technology which is well over 50 years old (originally introduced in 1963), they can still provide much pleasure, if not state-of-the-art optical performance
i.e. if you can appreciate them for what they are, rather than criticise them for what they lack - what I consider a heart rather than a head choice

To minimise the downsides, they're best used in bright but not harsh lighting conditions

John

p.s. last year Gijs van Ginkel published 2 tests involving various Trinovids, and I've attached a graph from one showing some changes to transmission over time
see here: https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/verrekijkers/verrekijkers-testen-en-vergelijken/

Joker9937 · Oct 26, 2019

John A Roberts said:
Hi Joker,

I started a thread about the dating of v2 Trinovids a while ago, which was based on my own observations of their numbering and model changes

The thread prompted additional information from:
- Gary Hawkins (an ex-Leica employee) who had published a booklet on Leitz binoculars, including number ranges for the v2 Trinovids, and
- Renze de Vries who provided useful additional information (Renze had been doing much the same as I but for much longer)

One thing that became obvious was that were several production runs of the 6x24's, and yours is from the last dating to around 1972/ 1973
see the last post here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3791913&postcount=56

The main optical limitations are of course those of all roof prisms of the era, which lack:
- multi-coating (first popularised by Zeiss in 1978 as T* coating)
- phase coating (first introduced by Zeiss in 1988), and
- dielectric prism coating (again a Zeiss innovation dating from 1998)

Consequently compared to current roof prisms, the image is:
- slightly soft (due to the de-phasing),
- less bright and less vibrant (due to the lack of multi-coating and dielectric coating), and
- less able to cope with with high contrast conditions (again the the lack of multi-coating)

Nevertheless, the Trinovids are fascinating artefacts with many desirable attributes, see my comments here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3858554&postcount=13
If kept in context as technology which is well over 50 years old (originally introduced in 1963), they can still provide much pleasure, if not state-of-the-art optical performance
i.e. if you can appreciate them for what they are, rather than criticise them for what they lack - what I consider a heart rather than a head choice

John

p.s. last year Gijs van Ginkel published 2 tests involving various Trinovids, and I've attached a graph from one showing some changes to transmission over time
see here: https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/verrekijkers/verrekijkers-testen-en-vergelijken/

Thank you for the info. I appreciate it.

I am a real rookie with binos, when it comes to understanding the physics and other, to me, heady details. It doesn't stop me from hunting for them, and enjoying their performance. So, I really appreciate the folks, like you guys, that understand it, break it down, and research dates of manufacture, etc. Thanks.

I attached a few more pics. They really are in outstanding condition. The eyecups are slightly misshapen, but completely intact. Very smooth focus, and hinge movement.

In comparing them with my Bushnell Custom Compact 6x25s, I really like the wider view of the Trinovids. Until now, I have felt that the CCs were just about as shockingly good as you could find. These Trinovids are pretty phenomenal, I think. It is hard for me to say. They MIGHT be a wee bit softer, but I am not convinced of that. They certainly are much more comfortable, and easy to use.

If what I have read about them is correct, the 12* FOV is hard to beat. I need to compare them to my Mk 43s. I am sure that with the extra aperture the 43s will impress me. However, they are huge and heavy. The Trinovids should overcome them on usability.

Not sure how this guy ended up selling such a well cared for set of uncommon binoculars. They were more expensive than my Bushnells, but I think I still got a good deal. Price I paid was pretty much in line with "sold" prices on Ebay for run-of-the-mill Trinovids, and what I would have paid for the set that started this thread.

These have the soft zipper case, and a microfiber cloth. Not sure if the cloth is original or not. I did not see the Leitz logo on it.

gunut · Oct 26, 2019

I have a small collection of Trinovids...8x20c 6x24 8x32 7x35b 10x40.....like them all but the 6x24 is my favorite....congratulations on yours….but be careful collecting can become addictive....

Joker9937 · Oct 26, 2019

gunut said:
I have a small collection of Trinovids...8x20c 6x24 8x32 7x35b 10x40.....like them all but the 6x24 is my favorite....congratulations on yours….but be careful collecting can become addictive....

Well, "addictive" might be an understatement. I think that I REALLY like these.

I am following up on two other sets (8x and 7x), but am going to run out of hobby money. If they are as nice as these, and the price is right, I might get kicked out of the house. :eek!: lol. But, deals don't come along every day. Just wish they wouldn't all come on the same day.

They all look alike too, so I just need to be sure and only have one set visible at a time. That should minimize the quantity shock.:king::king:

Anyway, thanks!

Patudo · Oct 27, 2019

Joker9937 said:
I am a real rookie with binos, when it comes to understanding the physics and other, to me, heady details. It doesn't stop me from hunting for them, and enjoying their performance.

...In comparing them with my Bushnell Custom Compact 6x25s, I really like the wider view of the Trinovids. Until now, I have felt that the CCs were just about as shockingly good as you could find. These Trinovids are pretty phenomenal, I think.

...I need to compare them to my Mk 43s. I am sure that with the extra aperture the 43s will impress me. However, they are huge and heavy.

Whoah! That made me sit up! It would be great to have a photo of those two side by side. Both six magnification, both with an unmatched field of view, but as different as chalk and cheese!

John A Roberts said:
If kept in context as technology which is well over 50 years old (originally introduced in 1963), they can still provide much pleasure, if not state-of-the-art optical performance
i.e. if you can appreciate them for what they are, rather than criticise them for what they lack - what I consider a heart rather than a head choice.

John's comments sum up using old binoculars (collecting them for collecting's sake is something different, I suppose) really well, I think! I use mine regularly and get a great amount of joy from them, but try to ensure that they are used in situations that play to their strengths, and where their weaknesses, so far as can be managed, can be mitigated. One benefit of using the older stuff on a regular basis is that when you get behind newer glass you really appreciate its capabilities. Going from something is the 8x30 (non-B) Zeiss West to the 8x32 FL is like experiencing the sum total of over 40 years of improvements in binoculars in a day.

Gijs van Ginkel · Oct 27, 2019

The Leitz Trinovid 6x24 I have investigated, see post 31 by John Roberts, is from 1965 and it has engravings dedicated to the Olympic games in LA, so it is a special edition. Looks brand new with a beautiful leather case.
Gijs van Ginkel

Joker9937 · Oct 27, 2019

Patudo said:
Whoah! That made me sit up! It would be great to have a photo of those two side by side. Both six magnification, both with an unmatched field of view, but as different as chalk and cheese!

John's comments sum up using old binoculars (collecting them for collecting's sake is something different, I suppose) really well, I think! I use mine regularly and get a great amount of joy from them, but try to ensure that they are used in situations that play to their strengths, and where their weaknesses, so far as can be managed, can be mitigated. One benefit of using the older stuff on a regular basis is that when you get behind newer glass you really appreciate its capabilities. Going from something is the 8x30 (non-B) Zeiss West to the 8x32 FL is like experiencing the sum total of over 40 years of improvements in binoculars in a day.

I do not have a good explanation for it, but I DO enjoy the old high-quality (relative to their era) binoculars. Probably due to the fact that they can usually be purchased for a fraction of the cost of the current production high-end models. Although, one of these days I will find a good deal on a current production Alpha version. Just squandering too much money a dime at a time on the old stuff. I would hate to see my pile if this had been a life-long addiction.

Most the binos, including my new Trinovids, are at least as old or older than I am. No logical reason to be so enamored. Oh well, it is good fun.

Per your recommendation/request, attached are some glamour shots of the two most-valuable binoculars that I own. They are also the two widest angle fov.

While it is cloudy and rainy here, I took a look at the other end of our house on the inside. The views were brighter, as expected, with the 43. However, I would say that the Trinovid did not leave much, if any, real room between them. What a crazy size difference there is. I don't see the 43s going anywhere any time soon, but WOW, the Trinovids are very cool.

Joker9937 · Oct 27, 2019

Gijs van Ginkel said:
The Leitz Trinovid 6x24 I have investigated, see post 31 by John Roberts, is from 1965 and it has engravings dedicated to the Olympic games in LA, so it is a special edition. Looks brand new with a beautiful leather case.
Gijs van Ginkel

Other than the ep collar, designating it an Olympics version, are they all the same?

Sorry, if that info should be obvious. Thank you.

John A Roberts · Oct 28, 2019

6x24 Production Runs and Dating

Hi Joker,

There were several production runs of the 6x24’s and your unit #775k was part of the last in 1972
(again see the details in my previous post: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3791913&postcount=56 )

Beside the observed numbering of units by Renze de Vries and myself, there is also a 2013 post from joejeweler addressing the notion that there was no 6x24 production after 1965
(see: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=2828446&postcount=36 )

He included an advertisement from a 1967 edition of the magazine Leica Photography headed ‘6x24 binoculars back by demand’ - see the attached images

- - - -
And regarding the 7x35's, excepting the markings there’s no difference between the non-Olympic and Olympic editions

John

Gijs van Ginkel · Oct 28, 2019

John, post 39,
Somewhere in my files I must have a letter by Mr. Hengst in which he explains why the difference in performance of older 7x35 's is not so good as later produced versions (the 7x35 came again into production because so many customers asked for it..... Better performance was especially due to different improvements and better coatings resulting among others in a much higher light transmission.
Gijs van Ginkel

Questions on Leitz Wetzlar bino missing ep collar Trinovid(?) (1 Viewer)

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