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Anyone gone from a 30D to a 40D? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter senatore
- Start date
Ray.Scott
Well-known member
Hi Max,
I've just upgraded from 30D to 40D, maybe not long enough to give the review you're after but here's a few of the noticable differences.
1 - Greater megapixel
2 - Larger LCD screen 3inch
3 - Automatic sensor cleaning technology.
4 - Live view function
5 - Better quaility on high Iso settings, less noise.
6 - Better feel to It when handeling.
7 - Better menue layout
As far as cons I've yet to find any, I suppose the obvious would possibly be such as Less battery life, less pics on memmory card, which tend to go hand in hand with the upgrade. The only other thing I have to get used to, is some of the function buttons have been juggled about and are different in relation to the 30D.
Oh! I forgot, the main con, Is It costs more £££
For a full review and also where you can do a side by side comparison, why not try DPreview, It'll show all the pro's and con's.
I've also just aquired the 400 prime and up to now am well pleased with the quality results. I used to have the 100-400 which was an excellent lens, and virsitile with the zoom, but I prefer the prime.:t:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/
Hope this helps.
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tdodd
Just call me Tim
I bought a 40D and have kept my 30D. Both are excellent cameras. Normally I'll have a long lens (100-400) on the 40D and a wider (17-55 or 10-22) lens on the 30D. If I were to take just one camera with me it would be the 40D. I'll go along with the pros of the 40D listed above (not sure I agree about the noise comment though) and add some more....
- Bigger, brighter viewfinder;
- ISO displayed in viewfinder at all times;
- Chunkier build means I have not felt the need to add a grip. In fact now the 30D gets the smaller lenses I have taken the grip off that. That means a lighter load in my backback and more room to squeeze an extra lens in.
- 3 custom shooting presets - e.g. recently I was shooting on a ski trip in sunny conditions. Using the sunny 16 rule as a starting point I set up three manual presets to give me one with a great depth of field, one with a high shutter speed and one somewhere in the middle. Rather than fiddle around with ISOs and other exposure settings, or bother about metering compensation, I could quickly set up the camera to shoot a scenic view, a group photo of friends, or a high speed action shot, and get a bang on exposure every time with no risk of error.
- Highlight tone priority
- I'll reiterate Live View - imagine having a 10X zoom on top of your long lens for perfect manual focus on a perched bird and a live histogram to nail exposure before you pull the trigger, rather than finding blinkies only when it's too late. (Tripod required!) See example here - http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=26219382
- Faster FPS to capture that perfect moment with a flapping bird
- Faster, more sensitive, more accurate AF (but see Downsides, below)
- Addition of dedicated AF-On button means you can keep the Flash Exposure Lock function
- Custom menu option to put your most common tweaks all on one screen - e.g. HTP on/off, AEB, Format, Sensor Clean etc..
Downsides....
- Some report problems using AF with an f/5.6 lens and a teleconverter. My personal experience is that the 40D works OK with this combo.
If I think of others I'll add to this post.
- Bigger, brighter viewfinder;
- ISO displayed in viewfinder at all times;
- Chunkier build means I have not felt the need to add a grip. In fact now the 30D gets the smaller lenses I have taken the grip off that. That means a lighter load in my backback and more room to squeeze an extra lens in.
- 3 custom shooting presets - e.g. recently I was shooting on a ski trip in sunny conditions. Using the sunny 16 rule as a starting point I set up three manual presets to give me one with a great depth of field, one with a high shutter speed and one somewhere in the middle. Rather than fiddle around with ISOs and other exposure settings, or bother about metering compensation, I could quickly set up the camera to shoot a scenic view, a group photo of friends, or a high speed action shot, and get a bang on exposure every time with no risk of error.
- Highlight tone priority
- I'll reiterate Live View - imagine having a 10X zoom on top of your long lens for perfect manual focus on a perched bird and a live histogram to nail exposure before you pull the trigger, rather than finding blinkies only when it's too late. (Tripod required!) See example here - http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=26219382
- Faster FPS to capture that perfect moment with a flapping bird
- Faster, more sensitive, more accurate AF (but see Downsides, below)
- Addition of dedicated AF-On button means you can keep the Flash Exposure Lock function
- Custom menu option to put your most common tweaks all on one screen - e.g. HTP on/off, AEB, Format, Sensor Clean etc..
Downsides....
- Some report problems using AF with an f/5.6 lens and a teleconverter. My personal experience is that the 40D works OK with this combo.
If I think of others I'll add to this post.
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Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
Yep, I made the same move, Max - and I'm delighted with the decision.
Aside from the improvements mentioned above, I am very pleased by the improvement in AF speed and accuracy with my 100-400mm.
But my single favourite thing about the 40D is that it does something with colours that is very satisfying: the colours aren't simply more saturated, they have a depth and richness I don't see from my 30Ds.
Aside from the improvements mentioned above, I am very pleased by the improvement in AF speed and accuracy with my 100-400mm.
But my single favourite thing about the 40D is that it does something with colours that is very satisfying: the colours aren't simply more saturated, they have a depth and richness I don't see from my 30Ds.
Tannin
Common; sedentary.
OK, I'll have a stab at this. I've never owned (or even held) a 30D, but I've owned two 20Ds which are so close to the same thing that it doesn't matter, and still own one of them. I also have a pair of 40Ds to compare them with.
One thing I should mention is that I don't actually use my 40Ds for bird work all that much. Mostly I use the 1D III & 500/4 as the primary bird setup, with a 40D & 100-400 kept handy for flight shots and the like. The other 40D and the remaining 20D usually have short lenses mounted for landscapes and such. Nevertheless, I used the 20Ds for birding extensively and have done a reasonable amount of serious bird work with a 40D.
Summary: the 40D is a useful upgrade over the 20D/30D. Don't buy one because you think it will somehow deliver better image quality, in most circumstances it won't. If you buy a 40D, buy it because it retains the excellent image quality of the 20D/30D but adds much better controls and displays, sensor cleaning, and modest improvements to dynamic range and the viewfinder. I bought one and liked it enough to buy a second one (to replace a 400D I passed on to a family member), and there are some tasks that it is clearly superior for, but most of the time I don't much care if it's a 40D or a 20D that my hand falls on when I reach into the camera bag.
- More megapixels. Who actually cares? Honestly, anyone who thinks that they can really tell the quality difference between a 10MP image and an 8MP image either has truly amazing eyesight to see something that no-one else on the planet can see, or else has rocks in his head. Any small gain you make through more data points is balanced by the loss you get in quality per data point. Forget the megapixels, they are neither here nor there.
- Larger LCD screen If it matters to you. You still can't see enough detail to really be sure if you have a great image or not until you get it home and onto a proper moniter, so who cares?
- Automatic sensor cleaning technology Big advantage, in fact probably the single most significant improvement over the 20D/30D. If you change lenses much, especially in dry, dusty environments, this is a major plus.
- Live view function May well be quite useful, but I haven't thought of any practical purpose for it myself yet. Indeed, I haven't even bothered finding out how to switch it on yet. Maybe one day when I get bored.
- Better quaility on high ISO settings, less noise Really? OK, I haven't done an ultra-careful test of this because the 1D III is easily superior to either so any minor differences between the 20D/30D and 40D models don't much matter to me now, but I think you are mistaking more extensive in-camera noise reduction for lower actual noise. If you post-process in the normal way that most people do - i.e., use Neat Image (or similar) I think you will find that there isn't much difference in the final result at all. The 40D strips out some noise in-camera (so the shot seems better at first) but doesn't leave much for Neat Image to work with, where the 20D shot cleans up more in PP. Net result: about even.
- Better feel Much of a muchness. Certainly not an improvement you would want to spend any money on.
- Better menu layout. Most people will probably think so, it's certainly more colourful, but although the 40D controls are much improved, the menu isn't actually much better to work with in most respects. (Hint: if you find the 20D menu awkward, learn to use the JUMP button). I can't remember now if the 30D menu is the same as the 20D or not, so maybe this comment doesn't apply.
- Less battery life. Huh? Since when?
- Less pics on memory card A minor drawback only. Not a great deal of difference.
- Bigger, brighter viewfinder Yes, quite a noticable difference. Worth having for sure.
- ISO displayed in viewfinder at all times A long overdue change - this should have been in the 10D, never mind the 20D and 30D - but for some totally incomprehensible reason, Canon have decided to put the ISO on your finger where on every other Canon camera it's on your thumb. This is the sort of classic ergonomic design blunder that makes Nikon users laugh at Canons. If you own multiple Canon bodies, it's a real drawback.
- Chunkier build Huh?
- 3 custom shooting presets Good idea, though I've not used them myself. Good luck figuring which things the presets do apply to and which they don't apply to.
- Highlight tone priority Very useful.
- Faster FPS A fairly small change, but nice.
- Quieter shutter Amazing that no-one has mentioned this - it's a significant change.
- Faster, more sensitive, more accurate AF Only a minor tweak. A little better, but not to be compared to a 1 Series AF system.
- Custom menu option to put your most common tweaks all on one screen I must try this! After all, there are only about 5 things on the menu that I regularly use (I should think most of us are the same in this, though they will be 5 different things for each of us) so who not put them all on the same screen?
- something with colours I haven't noticed anything of this nature, but then I have always loved the colours that the 20D produces.
One thing I should mention is that I don't actually use my 40Ds for bird work all that much. Mostly I use the 1D III & 500/4 as the primary bird setup, with a 40D & 100-400 kept handy for flight shots and the like. The other 40D and the remaining 20D usually have short lenses mounted for landscapes and such. Nevertheless, I used the 20Ds for birding extensively and have done a reasonable amount of serious bird work with a 40D.
Summary: the 40D is a useful upgrade over the 20D/30D. Don't buy one because you think it will somehow deliver better image quality, in most circumstances it won't. If you buy a 40D, buy it because it retains the excellent image quality of the 20D/30D but adds much better controls and displays, sensor cleaning, and modest improvements to dynamic range and the viewfinder. I bought one and liked it enough to buy a second one (to replace a 400D I passed on to a family member), and there are some tasks that it is clearly superior for, but most of the time I don't much care if it's a 40D or a 20D that my hand falls on when I reach into the camera bag.
Keith Reeder
Watch the birdie...
Really..!
I don't use the 40D's in-camera NR, and I don't consider the on-chip hardware noise cancellation to be "NR", but as a way to write less noise to the RAW file in the first place without hurting sharpness and detail the way in-camera software NR often will.
I can say with absolute conviction that at my "baseline" ISO of 400 I don't see a need to routinely run images through Neat Image (it was more or less a permanent part of the workflow with the 30D); and when I do use Neat Image on the 40D, I need significantly lower NR settings to get the required result, compared with the 30D.
This is all the more true at higher ISOs.
It's not so much that there's less noise per se from the 40D, but that the nature of the noise is different - less chroma, and the grain of the noise is finer (as you'd expect) and less obtrusive.
40D files just clean up better, but need less NR in the first place - if indeed they need any at all.
A lot of 40D users report similar findings.
I think that LiveView is suprisingly handy... the fact that you can zoom in to 5x or 10x can make manually focusing much easier. I use it when stacking tc's on my big lens and also for some macro work.
I've not had a 20D or 30D so cannot compare battery life, but my 40D seems to give ~2000 shots on a charge which is more than enough.
I was using a 400D before so my comparison is less relevant here, but I'd agree with Keith. the noise at ISO400 is no issue at all. Recently I've been doing a lot at ISO800 and all three of my posted images with the 40D have had any Neat Imaging at all.
tdodd
Just call me Tim
OK, poor choice of words. If you pick up a 40D in the usual way, as though to take a photograph, it feels bigger and more solid in the hand than the 30D. The grip is taller so you can get a bit more finger area in contact with the camera. Combined with a more sculpted grip shape the 40D just feels so much better to hold - "chunkier" and more secure. Measurements can't really explain the difference, but a hands on comparison can.
With my 30D I had a BG-E2 grip fitted and felt that was a worthwhile addition. With the 40D it felt so much better in the hand that I didn't really feel the need for the grip. I tried swapping the grip over from the 30D anyway and decided I'd rather save the weight and go without the extra grip. The 40D is fine on its own.
I now use the 40D as my long range shooter (100-400 or 70-200 f/2.8) and the 30D for wide angle stuff (lighter, shorter lenses) (10-22 or 17-55). As a consequence I have left the grip off the 30D and now both cameras are gripless. That means a lighter load to carry and/or room in my bag for an extra lens.
Having taken the BG-E2 off the 30D I can now fit my 40D with mounted 100-400 (and 1.4X teleconverter if required) plus my 30D with mounted 10-22 and also my 17-55 all in the main compartment of my Slingshot 200, all with reversed hoods on the lenses. That still leaves room in the top compartment for my 580EX and spare batteries for everything, and room in the outside compartment for my 50mm f/1.8 and some macro tubes, memory cards and cleaning stuff. Altogether it makes for a remarkably compact, flexible and quick to use setup. If I wanted/needed to have BG-E2 grip(s) fitted my options would be severely limited by comparison.
So to wrap that lot up in terms of advantages of the 40D over the 30D - buy a 40D and you can potentially save yourself the cost of a BG-E2(N) grip and save weight in your kit bag and/or take an extra lens along. That's an instant £100 benefit plus further fringe benfits on top.
I hope that makes things clearer
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Had a 30D for a year and, a month or so ago added a 40D. So far my conclusions are: 40D is 'nicer' to hold and has a better, slightly quieter, shutter sound. It has sensor cleaning that clearly works as I have just got back to Bombay from a weeks intensive birding and photography in the Rann of Kutch ( dry dusty desert). I changed lenses quite a bit on the 40D and not a single speck of dust is apparent on the sensor. When it comes to quality, I have clearly got less sensitive eyes than others as I cannot detect any difference in IQ, or colour and only an extremely marginal improvement in noise at ISO400. By the by, I tend to have my 456 stuck permanently to my 30D, no lens changing means no dust. I use my 40D for landscape and macro. I've tried the 456 on the 40D and could not see any IQ difference but felt that it was a tad slower to focus than when on the 30D.The 40D is a really nice camera, but then so is the 30D.
Tannin
Common; sedentary.
OK, fair enough. Just as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, feel is in the fingers of the holder. Or something.
Up until a few weeks ago when I bought my second 40D, I was regularly using 4 different cameras: a 1D III (which is huge compared to a 20D/30D/40D), a 40D, a 20D, and a 400D (which is tiny after you hold a 20D/30D/40D). I guess I was laughing at the thought that anyone could find those two almost identical bodies so different! When you've just been using a 1 Series body, and a 400D a moment before that, the you really don't notice any difference at all between the 20D and the 40D.
(This can be a bit of a problem sometimes because it's easy to forget which one you are using. From time to time I get caught that way, trying to use my thumb to change the ISO on the 40D, or wondering if I should turn Highlight Tone Priority on with the 20D in-hand. Nevertheless, the real usage difference is between the 1-wheel cameras (350D/400D/450D) and the two-wheel cameras (everything else with a Canon badge). Nice little camera though it was, I'm not sorry to have got rid of the 400D. I don't miss it at all. And sometimes I think about those hardy souls who apparently happily use a Canon and a Nikon camera system side by side. Quite apart from not being able to share lenses between them, how do they ever remember which control does what in the heat of the moment?)
I think that there is another, more subtle, reason for thinking that the 20D and 40D feel the same. That is that I've been using 20Ds for quite a while and my hand sort of "expects" a 20D shape when it picks up a camera. (We are all creatures of habit.) So picking up a 20D just feels "right". And the 40D, being similar but (IMO) very slightly better shaped to the hand than a 20D, also feels "right". They both feel "right" so (my poor brain concludes) they must both be "the same".
Habit is a funny thing though: if I put a 20D or 40D on the big lens (where the 1D III usually is mounted), it feels quite odd for a while - and this despite having used 20D and 500/4 together for a good while before I got the Mark III. But you quickly readjust and feel perfectly at home with the 20D/40D again after the first few minutes.
It's rather like going on holiday and driving a hire car for a couple of weeks. It feels really weird at first but you get used to it. And then you get home, step into your own car, and stall it twice in the airport carpark! But by the time you are 10 minutes into the drive home, it's as though you had never been away.
Quieter shutter Amazing that no-one has mentioned this - it's a significant change.
Well I have 3 canon bodies the 20D, 40D, and the 1dm2n and I also have one of the first Nikon D70 that came out and I will tell you this the D70 shutter noise puts the canon shutters to shame. I do not find much difference in the three shutters noise of the canon bodies. There all loud and a click will turn a birds head at 50 feet or send it on its way. However I love the 40D, it has great color speed and light weight and when on my 1 to 400 mounted on my BushHawk walking with it no problem at all. Its not as sharp as the 1dm2n but I can buy about 3- 40D for what the 1D costs and not that much difference except for fast focusing on in flight birds with the 1D. I would recoment you get it.
Lou
good stuff - I'm sure you'll love it.
Given Canon's 18-month life-cycle - you SHOULD be OK until about this time next year before the "50D" appears.
However, (I've been wrong before!!) with it being a Photokina year (eugh...) they may try to get something out but I'd have my fiver on it being PMA 2009 for the "50D".
