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102 Buzzards dead (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter mardibum
- Start date
Woodchatshrike
Registered User
They don't give you a gun licence up here in Scotland if you have committed any wildlife crime.
Chewbaxter
Reformed "Bird Ignorer"!
Pity they didn't shoot the b*st*rd!
Neil.
Neil.
birdboybowley
Well-known member.....apparently so ;)
Hey come on he got a 6 month suspended sentence and £150 fine....what more could you ask? That'll put him off I'm sure. Apparently he admitted killing 2 Buzzards so what about the other 100?? Fine the landowners too - you can't tell me they're that unaware as to what goes on in their estates. Bring back flogging - something we could all go and watch
John Cantelo
Well-known member
Umm the death penalty for shooting birds or do you just mean maiming the villain? .Let's be a little sensible here!
Dreadful though this is I take some heart in the fact that his crimes "came to light after other gamekeepers independently contacted the RSPB ...." I think Mark Thomas (of the RSPB, not the comic) was spot on when he said "Huge thanks are due to the gamekeepers who came forward and let us know what was happening at this estate. Their actions were brave and public spirited and show the decent, law-abiding face of game keeping."
John
Pete Mella
Getting there...
My thought exactly. It's easy for us to malign all gamekeepers because most of us aren't big fans of shooting, but the more there are out there that adhere to and even enforce the law the better things will get, and it's good to see there's some around.
Mark Thomas, RSPB investigations officer, said: 'This is a truly horrifying case. Wildlife on this estate was killed brutally and systematically. Birds of prey were shot, badgers trapped and bludgeoned to death, seemingly without a second thought" = 150 hours of community service and pay £200 costs !
"Mitigation centred on Burden’s young age, remorse and previous good character. It was also suggested that the prodigy of an established game keeping college, was only trying to protect his pheasants for the shooting season – all of this being ‘the way of the countryside"
Kempton Estate in Aston on Clun, Shropshire A bit odd that the Directors and Managers of such a reputable firm didn't notice all the wildlife had vanished. As the employers of this pathetic, little twerp justice would be better served if they were also held to account.
"Mitigation centred on Burden’s young age, remorse and previous good character. It was also suggested that the prodigy of an established game keeping college, was only trying to protect his pheasants for the shooting season – all of this being ‘the way of the countryside"
Kempton Estate in Aston on Clun, Shropshire A bit odd that the Directors and Managers of such a reputable firm didn't notice all the wildlife had vanished. As the employers of this pathetic, little twerp justice would be better served if they were also held to account.
I do not think that age does not come into it at all. It is having the maturity and respect for nature, and all animals first and foremost. :-C
The employers are more in the line of fire than the man, and his young age. Is he his the one carrying the can for their ignorance in the first place. :C
This young man may have had a 'clean cut' past life, but to do what he did was disgusting to say the least. He should have known better. The word 'No' is not part of his vocabulary so it seems:-C
I would not be surprised that he was told to behave in such a manner through his own naivety. He was fair game to be told what to do, and how to behave a certain way by a senior person. He may have not even realised that he was doing wrong at all - just mislead. :C
I feel for the animals he has tortured, and not his 'guilty' thoughts about the matter. :C
Well done that someone did something to stop all the carnage from continuing!
Kathy
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Neil-T
Moorlands Macro: Close up and personal....with bug
Originally posted by Peewit (Kathy).
I would not be surprised that he was told to behave in such a manner through his own naivety. He was fair game to be told what to do, and how to behave a certain way by a senior person. He may have not even realised that he was doing wrong at all - just mislead.
Sorry Kathy I have to disagree with you on that one. Or the teenagers around your neck of the woods are very well behaved.
I would not be surprised that he was told to behave in such a manner through his own naivety. He was fair game to be told what to do, and how to behave a certain way by a senior person. He may have not even realised that he was doing wrong at all - just mislead.
Sorry Kathy I have to disagree with you on that one. Or the teenagers around your neck of the woods are very well behaved.
Pete Mella
Getting there...
I have to agree that certain things have to possibly be taken into account - while of course he should be punished, if he is a gamekeeper's protege then he's been learning his ways from somewhere. It's perhaps unlikely he's become this raptor killing-machine in secret. And while ignorance isn't a defence in the law, it's quite possible he was told to do by others and didn't have the nous to realise it was illegal. People get it both ways - predator-proof moors, and someone else gets punished if sh*t hits the fan.
Of course it's also perfectly possible this was just one lone zealot, but you have to wonder... I'm not saying his punishment should be any less, just it's possible he's been a patsy.
Of course it's also perfectly possible this was just one lone zealot, but you have to wonder... I'm not saying his punishment should be any less, just it's possible he's been a patsy.
Chewbaxter
Reformed "Bird Ignorer"!
A bit emotional granted, but look at the full list of the animals he'd shot - hardly 'good management' I reckon.
I do get emotional where any animal cruelty is concerned, and that's what this is to me... I'll not get onto the subject of Ruddy Duck Culling as that's another matter (although again I don't condone it) - but this... and the poor level of the punishment given.
Okay we're human, and human crimes WILL take precedence when handing out stiff penalties - but this society seems not to care to much about crimes against animals.
At least the feller's been named and shamed, and I hope he's HATED in the place where he lives...
Shooting - maybe not then if we're realistic and logical, but I hope he gets his windows put through/car 'keyed' etc. etc.
Here's to a life of misery - maybe some justice for the poor animals who's life he'd ended!
:t:
Neil.
Pete Mella
Getting there...
Unfortunately we live in a society where we have underfunded police disappearing under the weight of red tape, and overcrowded prisons. While I agree wildlife crime should be treated with more severity in most cases (most of the time it amounts to a slap on the wrist and/or a minor financial setback), it's a tricky thing. Some areas of the media will have a field day if, say, someone shooting buzzards gets a stronger sentence than a rapist or a child molestor. And politically, human crimes will always be seen as more important and this is where funding will be channeled.
Personally I'd like to see larger financial punishments that would be large enough to actually be a deterrent. I mean who'd going to get deterred by £200?!. I'd also like to see more community service (perhaps on conservation projects - maybe some will go some way to being turned, and if they aren't they've at least put a tiny bit back), and longer (or even lifetime) firearms bans for offenders. I'd also like to see grouse moor owners held more accountable for the actions of their gamekeepers.
It's an emotive subject, but I can't agree with any hang 'em, flog 'em, maim 'em talk, or talk of vigilanteism... I don't agree with that for rapists and murderers, so I can't for buzzard shooters.
Some solace has to be taken for the fact that at least we've got a country where there are laws in place protecting wildlife, and tenatious organisations like the RSPB and RSPCA are there to do their part enforcing it. And as has previously been said, at least we can take away from this story the fact that there are gamekeepers that don't agree with persecution, and are willing to stick their neck out and report it.
Fair statement, each to their own opinion.
No, the teenagers are a long way off sweet and innocent where I stay. I stay in a good area. and 'nice' is not a word that enters my head innocent or otherwise, sticks in my mind.
I think you can get a 'bad' egg anywhere now no matter where a person stays, or what their background is like.
Pete
That is a possibility. The young man may have been brainwashed to be a 'zealot' as you put it.
Kathy
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michha62
Mike
A good and balanced discussion here, I think. This incident is local to me and so is of special interest. Some facts have not however been widely reported. The young game keepers’ activities were reported to the authorities by two other local gamekeepers, independently. It seems that all gamekeepers are not of his and his superior’s mentality. His light sentence does reflect some degree of plea bargaining, whereby he has agreed to provide evidence in the criminal prosecution of his senior gamekeeper and possibly the estate. The RSPB/RSPCA will certainly be most aggressive in seeking further prosecutions.
Mike.
Mike.
bobthebirder
Well-known member
They didn't? I wonder. As Mark Thomas wrote in his blog, "The path for these good [informants] was not going to be easy; they knew the moment they spoke up they were out of a job..."
If they do lose their jobs, let's hope they can sue for wrongful dismissal.
His light sentence does reflect some degree of plea bargaining, whereby he has agreed to provide evidence in the criminal prosecution of his senior gamekeeper and possibly the estate. The RSPB/RSPCA will certainly be most aggressive in seeking further prosecutions.
Infact it was said in court at Ludlow he will appear as a witness for the other man NOT AGAINST him.
See Animal Aid version of events
http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/AA/HOME/
Infact it was said in court at Ludlow he will appear as a witness for the other man NOT AGAINST him.
See Animal Aid version of events
http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/AA/HOME/
Pete Mella
Getting there...
I'd rather not, I'll end up on the side of the gamekeepers...
[EDIT - actually that's quite a reasonable statement for Animal Aid, I'll let them off for once]
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Robin Edwards
Well-known member
Some good points made in the thread although I still struggle to see why the judiciary and magistrates give out fines that wouldn't have created much hardship in Victorian Britain let alone in 2008.
A clamped wheel, parking misdemeanour or an over-full wheelie bin can result in local authorities imposing much greater and disproportionate penalties than this. Have we gone mad ?
A £20000 fine would do it for me - probably equates to what a lot of our university students end up owing at the end of their course so can't be that bad can it ?
A big pat on the back for Mark and the RSPB as well as for those gamekeepers who respect the law.
A clamped wheel, parking misdemeanour or an over-full wheelie bin can result in local authorities imposing much greater and disproportionate penalties than this. Have we gone mad ?
A £20000 fine would do it for me - probably equates to what a lot of our university students end up owing at the end of their course so can't be that bad can it ?
A big pat on the back for Mark and the RSPB as well as for those gamekeepers who respect the law.
