Mysticete
Well-known member
Tune in I guess to the future NAB article that is going over this. All we can do is speculate until that comes out.
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2024 ABA Checklist update (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Mysticete
- Start date
Kirk Roth
Rarely to be taken seriously
The treatment of these Hawaiian birds seems especially interesting to me, especially with regard to equity with other states.
When eBird rolled out its new exotics policy, there were guidelines on how the categories were assigned, but it was for the most part established using the local expertise of the eBird reviewers. I had some limited involvement in this - for example in my state (Indiana) we determined which counties would be expected to have European Goldfinch originating from the Milwaukee/Chicago population more so than released cagebirds, thusly a Goldfinch is "Naturalized" near Lake Michigan but "Escapee" in Indianapolis until proven otherwise.
I've since learned that the different locations have something of different treatments of their exotics. I was surprised to see that Mandarin Duck is considered Provisional in Utah on the strength of several Salt Lake City Parks which seem to host three or less apiece, plus one hotspot which seems to have more of a population... the Springville Swan Farm. The species has far more "singleton" presence in places like Los Angeles, Sacramento, and Portland Oregon, where they are still considered "Escapee." Californian eBird considers the Sonoma County population "Provisional" - where I believe there is a history of breeding bird survey data occurrence (but I don't know for sure).
Hawaiian criteria are different still - I have the sense that some of these birds are labeled "Provisional" more to keep them under watch to see how established or not they become, rather than the "California method" of labeling which are breeding birds but not on the official checklist. As such, if we were using California rules, Japanese Quail and Lavender Waxbill would probably be "Provisional" not "Established" and the others might be bumped down to "Exotic" (the Corella perhaps being a borderline case). There is even debate whether Salmon-crested and White Cockatoos reports represent mostly or almost entirely hybrids beyond the initial ringed released birds.
I can understand these differences in philosophy - the topography, bird life, and conservation issues are drastically different between Hawaii and California, and it makes sense that monitoring interests would differ accordingly. And, as I've emphasized in other threads, eBird is primarily a data gathering tool - our personal checklists are a secondary (at best) concern.
That is not so for the ABA, and there are many layers of apples being compared to oranges. So does the ABA accept that a countable bird has different criteria in Salt Lake City than it does in Los Angeles? Does the ABA have different continental and Hawaii systems for Provisional birds? Does ABA address the nuance or ignore it? And my least favorite question - does eBird adjust its system to accommodate ABA listers? I think we need a lot more answers than given in a single sentence or so in the last ABA announcement; they are promised this spring and should be interesting.
Kirk Roth
Rarely to be taken seriously
I believe there was a policy change among the reviewers and they have not yet cleaned up all the old reports before the change. This one bird was reported many hundreds of times, if not over a thousand - so if it takes some time to get things "clean" I understand.
There are cases like this all over the U.S. - the Mandarin Duck records at the swan farm I mentioned above are a mix of status, and last time I checked the Lake Eola waterfowl in Florida were messy too. Its a volunteer effort - I have some compassion for that.
raymie
Well-known member
The Lake Eola waterfowl in Florida shouldn't be in eBird at all. They're all pinioned, city-owned birds, although this does not seem to be common knowledge.
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Kirk Roth
Rarely to be taken seriously
"Provisional" in ABA vocabulary used to mean a bird you weren't sure would end up being accepted in a big year. That is different than eBird's definition of a Provisional bird - meaning "semi-established."
So if you saw a Eurasian Sparrowhawk in Alaska, that might be a countable species but a "Provisional" record to the ABA until a checklist committee confirms the ID. That confirmation may be after you report your list.
A "Provisional" bird (sensu eBird) may also be "Provisional" (sensu ABA) if there is a question on whether a bird is established or not - e.g. a Mandarin Duck in Salt Lake City - and some decision needs to be made on it. Hence, more wrinkles.
Mysticete
Well-known member
Kind of feels like at this point we need some new terminology, since provisional might refer to a bird whose identity itself is a matter of debate, such as has been an issue a few times with some raptors from Alaska, but it could also be applied to cases where the identity is 100% certain, but the origin of the bird isn't. Certainly that seems to be the ebird use of provisional.
Mysticete
Well-known member
So it looks likes like the ABA checklist has been updated, with the provisional birds added to the end of the checklist:
Of note, the provisional list is broken in a A and B list. A are provisional birds which are introduced species that are not as of yet considered established. B is a list of provisional species where identity is certain but origin is unclear, or the origin is clearly ship-assisted.
I don't know how complete/incomplete B is, but I noticed a few ABA provisional species not listed, namely Silver Pheasant and Great Tit, although I may have missed some additional ones. Not sure if this represents a future ebird change in status or if it was simply and oversight
Some discussion of this can also be found here with the rest of the checklist update:
www.aba.org
Although all of this stuff will be discussed in the next NAB issue which sadly doesn't appear to be visible yet.
oh, also with unanimous votes, Gray Gull, Yellow-headed Caracara, and Blue-black Grassquit were added to the list. Kind of surprising really, since I feel like a decade ago there would have been at the very least dissenters if not rejection, given how cautious the checklist committee was in the past.
Of note, the provisional list is broken in a A and B list. A are provisional birds which are introduced species that are not as of yet considered established. B is a list of provisional species where identity is certain but origin is unclear, or the origin is clearly ship-assisted.
I don't know how complete/incomplete B is, but I noticed a few ABA provisional species not listed, namely Silver Pheasant and Great Tit, although I may have missed some additional ones. Not sure if this represents a future ebird change in status or if it was simply and oversight
Some discussion of this can also be found here with the rest of the checklist update:
ABA Checklist Committee (CLC) Report: July 2024 - American Birding Association
The ABA Checklist includes species found in the ABA Area which are breeding species, regular visitors, casual and accidental species from other regions that are believed to have strayed here unrestrained by humans, and well-established introduced species that are now part of our avifauna. This...
www.aba.org
Although all of this stuff will be discussed in the next NAB issue which sadly doesn't appear to be visible yet.
oh, also with unanimous votes, Gray Gull, Yellow-headed Caracara, and Blue-black Grassquit were added to the list. Kind of surprising really, since I feel like a decade ago there would have been at the very least dissenters if not rejection, given how cautious the checklist committee was in the past.
raymie
Well-known member
Black-throated Magpie-Jay is the only other obvious missing species. Great Tit may have been excluded due to the fact that a potential record of natural vagrancy to Alaska is under review.So it looks likes like the ABA checklist has been updated, with the provisional birds added to the end of the checklist:
Of note, the provisional list is broken in a A and B list. A are provisional birds which are introduced species that are not as of yet considered established. B is a list of provisional species where identity is certain but origin is unclear, or the origin is clearly ship-assisted.
I don't know how complete/incomplete B is, but I noticed a few ABA provisional species not listed, namely Silver Pheasant and Great Tit, although I may have missed some additional ones. Not sure if this represents a future ebird change in status or if it was simply and oversight
Some discussion of this can also be found here with the rest of the checklist update:
ABA Checklist Committee (CLC) Report: July 2024 - American Birding Association
The ABA Checklist includes species found in the ABA Area which are breeding species, regular visitors, casual and accidental species from other regions that are believed to have strayed here unrestrained by humans, and well-established introduced species that are now part of our avifauna. This...
Although all of this stuff will be discussed in the next NAB issue which sadly doesn't appear to be visible yet.
oh, also with unanimous votes, Gray Gull, Yellow-headed Caracara, and Blue-black Grassquit were added to the list. Kind of surprising really, since I feel like a decade ago there would have been at the very least dissenters if not rejection, given how cautious the checklist committee was in the past.
Mysticete
Well-known member
as came up earlier in the thread, Black-throated Magpie-Jay is not listed under provisional due to ebird not considering it so
raymie
Well-known member
Wait a minute I just realized exactly what happened here. All they did was look at the eBird page for United States and take all the birds listed as provisional (minus Common Hill Myna, since it's extirpated).
Black-throated Magpie-Jay is not listed because eBird marks them as escapees.
Great Tit is not listed because the single vagrant record means they do not appear on the US' Provisional list on the eBird page.
Silver Pheasant is not counted because they only looked at the US page and did not check Canada.
This would also mean basically no research was done, which is beyond disappointing. They clearly didn't even go as far as contacting people at eBird for their opinions.
Black-throated Magpie-Jay is not listed because eBird marks them as escapees.
Great Tit is not listed because the single vagrant record means they do not appear on the US' Provisional list on the eBird page.
Silver Pheasant is not counted because they only looked at the US page and did not check Canada.
This would also mean basically no research was done, which is beyond disappointing. They clearly didn't even go as far as contacting people at eBird for their opinions.
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Mysticete
Well-known member
I was going to contact them about the Silver Pheasant and Great Tit, but ABA has shrunk there social media presence and I am just not sure who I should contact about this
raymie
Well-known member
I commented on ABA Community and sent the RSEC an email. I suggest you do the same.
Mysticete
Well-known member
I left a remark on the ABA Birds and Birding facebook group
Kirk Roth
Rarely to be taken seriously
Yellow-headed Parrot is in the main list and the Provisional A list, so maybe that bird can count twice on the new life lists. But as you note, Great Tit doesn't get the same treatment.
Kirk Roth
Rarely to be taken seriously
Is it certainly extirpated in the past two years?
Regardless, it should be noted that Salmon-crested and White Cockatoos are still on the list even though they have been "extirpated" or at least relegated to a hybrid swarm. Despite what the Hawaiian reviewers seem to approve, recent photos of these species appear to show hybrids, and VanderWerf/Kalodimos published that in 2019 there was apparently one pure Salmon-crested and 12 hybrids at the Lyon Arboretum - that representing the entire feral population of these supposedly "provisional" species. See Naturalized Parrots of the World by Stephen Pruett-Jones.
raymie
Well-known member
Common Hill Myna hasn't been sighted in Florida since May of 2022. Considering how densely populated the area they occur in is it's difficult to imagine them going undetected for such a long period of time.
Mysticete
Well-known member
I received the summer edition of North American birds today in the mail, which has a history of the ABA checklist with an emphasis on some recent changes in policies, specifically the provisional species list. There isn't much new really that wasn't in the ABA checklist update from this month, other than the fact that all of this is part of an effort to reduce as many discrepancies as possible between ebird and the ABA list (They include a handy table of those discrepancies, which at the moment are dominated by taxonomic changes made in clements last year that were only accepted by AOS this year). The only bit of novel information is an explanation of why "Wandering Albatross" is maintained on the list instead of Antipodean: namely that the checklist committee wasn't confident it WAS an antipodean, and so Wandering in this case sort of refers to the complex as a whole, not a specific species.
Sadly I feel the article comes a bit too early. The recent Herring Gull decision will be the first case where there will be a discrepancy in number of species in ebird versus ABA as a result of a taxonomic split. Namely AOS rejected the split (for now) but ebird accepts it, and American Herring (obviously), Vega, and European Herring Gull all occur within the ABA area. So will these be separate ticks?
Sadly I feel the article comes a bit too early. The recent Herring Gull decision will be the first case where there will be a discrepancy in number of species in ebird versus ABA as a result of a taxonomic split. Namely AOS rejected the split (for now) but ebird accepts it, and American Herring (obviously), Vega, and European Herring Gull all occur within the ABA area. So will these be separate ticks?
Jeff Hopkins
Just another...observer
They are on some of my new temporary lists.
I now have six ABA lists: ABA as is, ABA with AOS changes, and ABA with future eBird Changes, and each of those has a "with and without Hawaii" version. 😱
Fortunately I only have two world lists: With and without the predicted eBird changes. The former has Mongolian Gull, too.
Paul Chapman
Well-known member
I have to say that I find this all rather bizarre. The merging of the eBird and the official approach to me is nonsensical. eBird went from a database which made no real judgment. It was a repository of sightings. To one in which they started applying some judgements with their exotic categorisations which was not meant (as far as I understood) to be an official record. To one where effectively, the listing/official record has started homogenising! That makes no sense to me. It is theoretically muddled. My personal experience is that simply leads to bewilderment.
All the best
Paul
All the best
Paul
