A few thoughts on Hen Harriers. (1 Viewer)

[John S. Armitage]

The discussions between the shooting fraternity and conservation organizations appears at an all time low ebb. Similarly raptor persecution goes on unabated, therefore something needs to happen. Have put a few thoughts together on my Blog ( http://www.birdingodyssey.blogspot.com/ ) that some will think draconian, but the situation is getting worse and conservationists need to indicate "enough is enough" in my view.
I'm sure many will disagree ( and I respect all views ) but this situation with raptor persecution in the 21st Millenium is ridiculous.

In my view to ignore it is to condone it!!

john.

 

[Capercaillie71]

It will be interesting to see the effect of vicarious liability in Scotland. Many estates will no doubt be able to produce all sorts of signed agreements and records of training for their gamekeepers to demonstrate that they have taken all reasonable steps to prevent raptor persecution. However, if they have privately been telling their gamekeepers to get rid of raptors, then they will still be vulnerable if the gamekeeper spills the beans at or after a court case. The only reason for a convicted gamekeeper to remain loyal to the estate owner is if they think they will keep their job. However, a wildlife crime conviction effectively bars someone from working as a gamekeeper until the conviction is spent as they cannot operate under the general licences to control corvids.

To increase the chances of vicarious liability being effective then an increase in satellite tracking of hen harriers might put more pressure on the offending estates, but of course that needs money.

The problem with supplementary feeding is that it is very labour intensive (expensive), and financial support for it is only available through a complex competitive application process and is dependent on there being harriers there to start with. Priority is given to Special Protection Areas for hen harriers, but most areas where harriers are persecuted are not SPAs as there are no harriers there!

My personal view (and I know it is not popular with many raptor enthusiasts) is that a ceiling system as proposed by Steve Redpath and others is probably the only way that this conflict can be resolved. This is a pragmatic position based on the facts that (a) there is a limit to the amount of resources that can be spent policing harrier persecution and (b) the harrier persecutors have 'won' in the current situation as there are effectively no harriers breeding on intensive grouse moors in most of the UK (c) there is little likelihood of grouse shooting being banned by any government. I am aware of all the potential pitfalls of the ceiling project - lack of trust on both sides, the danger of setting a precedent for other raptors and the need for a derogation from the wild birds directive etc. However, I think that a carefully designed and scientifically planned trial project in one area would be worth trying. If successful, the benefits of sporting estates and conservationists working together could be immense.

Ultimately, I don't need to have 20 harrier nests on my local moor. Three or four pairs with a ceiling would be preferable to the current situation, which is no pairs for several years.

 

[John S. Armitage]

Thanks, Capercaillie,for a very useful and detailed Comment. Your point re crow control has sparked off a few thoughts already! I'm sure that at least one keeper operated a "personal ceiling" strategy in Bowland whilst I oversaw the operation for RSPB many years ago. He once gave a very knowing smile and look when the three pairs that year on his ground all had good broods. But the fact is , it put harriers "in the air" and the population steadily grew. Sadly I think it's persecution off the hill in winter that is as big a problem nowadays.
Again, thanks for your time. Much appreciated. John.

 

[Firecrest5]

Regarding ceilings, many keepers will state that they know the "balance" and will happily have a variety of raptors present on their land......but unfortunately it is the "wipe-out" mob who do the damage.

 

[June Atkinson]

The discussions between the shooting fraternity and conservation organizations appears at an all time low ebb. Similarly raptor persecution goes on unabated, therefore something needs to happen. Have put a few thoughts together on my Blog ( http://www.birdingodyssey.blogspot.com/ ) that some will think draconian, but the situation is getting worse and conservationists need to indicate "enough is enough" in my view.
I'm sure many will disagree ( and I respect all views ) but this situation with raptor persecution in the 21st Millenium is ridiculous.

In my view to ignore it is to condone it!!

john.[/QUOTE

Here in Gateshead's Derwent Valley we have seen both sides of this bird of prey persecution problem. Our Kites in the core area have done well, in part because the local population knew they were there and the more their presence was known, the less likely the persecution.

Problems arose when they attempted to disperse into Northumberland and Teesdale. We lost several adult kites and one chick to carbofuran poisoning.

We are busy revising our Farmer's pack, which both informs and encourages local farmers. land managers and land owners to conserve these majestic birds. We shall shortly include a dedicated page to this on our website www.friendsofredkites.org.uk

In Yorkshire, one of our 2004 kites is with a Yorkshire kite and they are breeding well. Their territory is on a farm, with a Gamekeeper and this proves that the two can happily co-exist.

Hen harriers are equally beautiful birds, but if the present persecution continues, we shall sadly see them no longer gracing our skies.

 

[Robin Edwards]

I'm sure many will disagree ( and I respect all views ) but this situation with raptor persecution in the 21st Millenium is ridiculous.

In my view to ignore it is to condone it!!

john.

I absolutely agree on both points John. My concerns over how such a quota scheme would work out in practice :-

Hen Harrier roams far and wide and encroaches on area Y where numbers are already at quota levels and are destroyed, depleting the numbers from source area X.

We know that landowners are currently adopting quota level of zero birds. What would prevent this illegal activity continuing?

If a quota system is allowed for Hen Harrier, what would happen if other BoP were destroyed and claims are made that simple ID errors were made. Does this not significantly weaken the application of the law? (accepting that it's pretty toothless already).

 

[Farnboro John]

I hadn't considered the possibility of illegal persecution continuing in the event of a quota system being set up, but now its been raised it is clear that such a system would never work. The main change to the circumstances of Hen Harriers would be that even eyewitness and video recording evidence of a harrier shooting would be useless as the shooter would simply say they wer dealing with a bird above quota.

We must face facts. There is no compromise to be had with these people: we already know they have no compunction about law-breaking. What is needed is stiffer offences including vicarious liability, and stiffer penalties including withdrawal of shooting rights over the estate in the event of wrongdoing.

John

 

[John S. Armitage]

Hi Robin and thanks for contributing. The question of quotas was raised in the Forumand is not something I advocate within the piece I've written. The Bowland situation was one that simple happened, was never discussed or agreed to, although it did produce birds over two or three seasons that might otherwise have disappeared. I've never been keen on quotas as I simply feel the system would be ignored. Neither am I keen on translocation ideas either. The fact of the matter is that these people should be adhering to the law and, if not, then action should be raised against the shooting estates based on the body of general evidence available. I suspect in a few years time we will see the issue be more whether shooting should be allowed, as opposed to trying to reach some compromise.

 

[John S. Armitage]

John, hi and thanks for contributing. I think you're absolutely right. Nothing has proved to be of interest to the shooting fraternity, nor has any suggestions come from them. I think it's an issue that has reached the point of needing to be taken "head on", although I'm not sure the conservation organizations have the stomach for it and so compromises might still be pursued, I doubt, sadly, with any success at all.

 

[keith]

The criminals have won, simple as that!.

 

[Capercaillie71]

I hadn't considered the possibility of illegal persecution continuing in the event of a quota system being set up, but now its been raised it is clear that such a system would never work. The main change to the circumstances of Hen Harriers would be that even eyewitness and video recording evidence of a harrier shooting would be useless as the shooter would simply say they wer dealing with a bird above quota.

Most of the quota systems that I have heard of don't involve shooting anything. The most practical suggestion that I am aware of is to replace eggs in the nest with dummy eggs (to prevent re-laying). Ultimately it seems to be the number of harrier chicks being fed that determines the extent of grouse losses. Therefore, if you had three harrier nests, each with four eggs, on a moor with a quota of eight chicks, you could replace all the eggs in one nest, or replace 1-2 eggs in each nest to spread the risk. Egg replacement would have to be carried out under licence and fully monitored and it would be best done by an non-partisan agency (i.e. not a gamekeeper or a conservationist).

I am fairly sure that you could find a significant area of grouse moor in Scotland at least, where you could run a trial scheme with some chance of success.

 

[Robin Edwards]

I am fairly sure that you could find a significant area of grouse moor in Scotland at least, where you could run a trial scheme with some chance of success.

Good points Caper71. I can't help thinking though that we would need a reintroduction scheme and a whole load of law abiding before Hen Harriers reached a baseline to then run such a scheme.

Personally I'm in the same camp as others and think that a grouse shooting ban and a legal system with teeth has to be the long-term aim of conservationists.

 

[Farnboro John]

Personally I'm in the same camp as others and think that a grouse shooting ban and a legal system with teeth has to be the long-term aim of conservationists.

I'm not in favour of a grouse shooting ban, you'll lose the last grouse moors to pheasants in no time. And they taste good.

What I am in favour of is bans on shooting for the whole estate as a punishment for raptor persecution, starting at a year and ramping up quickly.

John