Accipiter , Belgium (1 Viewer)

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,

thanks to all for correction and especially to Torchepot for asking Andrew Butler and him for commenting!

I came back to this thread several times now and searched for reasons why this Goshawk looks so small and not powerful. But there is no reason: judging size of lone birds is notoriously unreliable. Its as easy as that. Thanks Butty!

 

[KenM]

Hello,

thanks to all for correction and especially to Torchepot for asking Andrew Butler and him for commenting!

I came back to this thread several times now and searched for reasons why this Goshawk looks so small and not powerful. But there is no reason: judging size of lone birds is notoriously unreliable. Its as easy as that. Thanks Butty!

I find it odd, that when viewing a “close” subject bird as this from a shot, it’s “real” size is difficult to ascertain, yet in the field it should be more apparent Alexander, even though all the comparative shrubbery is s/s relatively when viewing in the field, or as in this case from an image. 👍

 

[Butty]

when viewing a “close” subject bird as this from a shot, it’s “real” size is difficult to ascertain, yet in the field it should be more apparent

Judging the size of a lone bird is notoriously unreliable, whether in photos or in the field.

s/s

🤷🏻

 

[KenM]

Judging the size of a lone bird is notoriously unreliable, whether in photos or in the field.

🤷🏻

Playing to the gallery again…..yawn!

 

[tconzemi]

Interesting bird, body feathers adult but secondaries subadult, I agree with subadult Gos. The motion blur of the wings does not help but inner secondaries look quite plain. Very deep chest and even if hardly visible, some indication of Gos uppertail barring (which is another very reliable feature but just a guess in this picture)

 

[01101001]

some indication of Gos uppertail barring (which is another very reliable feature but just a guess in this picture)

While I don't have the Collins guide in front of me now, I don't remember seeing it there. Could you write more about the difference so that I can make sure I understand that correctly?

(for reference, some photos of both birds' uppertails in the files below)

 

[Torchepot]

Many thanks 01101001

A very valuable resource that I've never seen before. 👍

 

[tconzemi]

While I don't have the Collins guide in front of me now, I don't remember seeing it there. Could you write more about the difference so that I can make sure I understand that correctly?

The barring in Gos is not a nice bar but quite distorted and always bordered by a well visible white line never present in Sparrowhawk which has much more regular rectangular bars

 

[Torchepot]

The barring in Gos is not a nice bar but quite distorted and always bordered by a well visible white line never present in Sparrowhawk which has much more regular rectangular bars

I've seen this quoted on BF before, but I'm not sure that it's the case, particularly

always bordered by a well visible white line

Trawling through images of Goshawk it certainly seems to be true for juvenile birds, but as they age it seems to dissappear. Interestingly there seems to be a gender difference which I've not heard mentioned. The pale distal edge to the dark bands on the upper surface of the tail appears more prominent in young females and seems to be retained for longer. Some adult males (and females?) seem to show little or no barring to the upper surface of the tail.
In general the barring on the underside of the wings and tail seems to become less and less distinct with age and the the barring on the breast and belly becomes finer. Some second plumage birds (particularly males?) appear to show very bold coarse barring on the chest (though some appear to show a kind of "half-way house" between juvenile and adult).
The situation is complicated by variation in plumage between individuals and subspecies.

 

[Butty]

Pattern of uppertail-barring has always seemed to me to be, if present, a good feature to exclude sparrowhawk. The point for ID purposes is not whether goshawk sometimes doesn't show it but whether sparrowhawk ever shows it - and, as far as I'm aware, sparrowhawk never does show it.