German Accipiter Identification (1 Viewer)

[Blurs80]

Is this a Sparrowhawk or Goshawk?
ML615219003 - Eurasian Sparrowhawk/Eurasian Goshawk - Macaulay Library

ML615218973 - Eurasian Sparrowhawk/Eurasian Goshawk - Macaulay Library

 

[Saxatilis]

Hello
I would say Goshawk

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

Is this a Sparrowhawk or Goshawk?
ML615219003 - Eurasian Sparrowhawk/Eurasian Goshawk - Macaulay Library

ML615218973 - Eurasian Sparrowhawk/Eurasian Goshawk - Macaulay Library

Neck and head look short/small like a Sparrowhawk, although that may have something to do with the angle/distance.

Tail looks squared-off like that of a Sparrowhawk. On that basis alone, I'll go with Sparrowhawk.

 

[dantheman]

I'll stick my neck out and say the second especially screams Goshawk to me.

 

[PaulCountyDurham]

I'll stick my neck out and say the second especially screams Goshawk to me.

Aye, I was looking at the first picture. 'Looking at the second picture, it does give the impression of a bird with a longer neck.

'Still think the squared-off tail in the first picture looks more Sparrowhawk.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Spar.

 

[01101001]

Now that we have the inner secondary barring feature, I wouldn't want to tick an accipiter on jizz only (personally).

EDIT: Maybe unless it's obviously got a (relatively) big hulking neckless head of a Sparrowhawk or is perched close enough for me to compare tarsus width and eye diameter.

 

[Torchepot]

Now that we have the inner secondary barring feature, I wouldn't want to tick an accipiter on jizz only (personally).

EDIT: Maybe unless it's obviously got a (relatively) big hulking neckless head of a Sparrowhawk or is perched close enough for me to compare tarsus width and eye diameter.

Could you point me in the direction of any research on eye diameter please. I have a feeling that there is a subtle but significant difference in the proportions and placement of the eye between Goshawk and Sparrowhawk and I'm hoping there may be mention of this in studies somewhere. 🤞👍

 

[01101001]

Not sure where I first heard of it (probably on BF), but I tried to copy the wording from the last Collins.

 

[Blurs80]

I also have another photo but I’m not sure if it helps at all.
ML615224988 - Eurasian Sparrowhawk/Eurasian Goshawk - Macaulay Libraryhttps://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/615224988
Is any consensus possible for the photos or would it be safer to leave it as an unknown accipiter sp.?

 

[KenM]

I also have another photo but I’m not sure if it helps at all.
ML615224988 - Eurasian Sparrowhawk/Eurasian Goshawk - Macaulay LibraryML615224988 - Eurasian Sparrowhawk/Eurasian Goshawk - Macaulay Library
Is any consensus possible for the photos or would it be safer to leave it as an unknown accipiter sp.?

Definitely an Accipiter Blurs80. 👍

 

[Andy Hurley]

Now that we have the inner secondary barring feature, I wouldn't want to tick an accipiter on jizz only (personally).

EDIT: Maybe unless it's obviously got a (relatively) big hulking neckless head of a Sparrowhawk or is perched close enough for me to compare tarsus width and eye diameter.

Not sure where I first heard of it (probably on BF), but I tried to copy the wording from the last Collins.

Sparrowhawk:
From Collins 2nd Ed; "(rule of thumb): tarsus thinner than diameter of eye, the opposite in Goshawk)."

 

[Andy Adcock]

Sparrowhawk:
From Collins 2nd Ed; "(rule of thumb): tarsus thinner than diameter of eye, the opposite in Goshawk)."

Very useful in a flying bird

 

[Andy Hurley]

Did you note the flight pattern?

Once again the Collins states: "Flight characteristic, a few quick wingbeats relieved by a short glide, pigeon-quick wingbeats makes the bird ascend, and brief glides descend, thus flight path slightly undulating, not as steady as the Goshawk."

 

[Andy Hurley]

Very useful in a flying bird

Not, but see quotes for reason for mentioning.

 

[Rotherbirder]

Are these meant to be the same bird in each image or are we looking at different individuals? The protruding head and large bill of the second bird suggests Goshawk.

RB

 

[Simon G]

Now that we have the inner secondary barring feature, I wouldn't want to tick an accipiter on jizz only (personally).

EDIT: Maybe unless it's obviously got a (relatively) big hulking neckless head of a Sparrowhawk or is perched close enough for me to compare tarsus width and eye diameter.

But check out this article, linked from a recent thread: Northern Goshawk flight identification and ageing in the UK - Revised and updated, particularly what the author refers to as "second plumage". Secondary barring still needs care and may well not be definitive in field observations.

 

[Blurs80]

Are these meant to be the same bird in each image or are we looking at different individuals? The protruding head and large bill of the second bird suggests Goshawk.

RB

These photos were taken of the same bird. It was too far and too short a glimpse to note flight pattern.

 

[01101001]

But check out this article, linked from a recent thread: Northern Goshawk flight identification and ageing in the UK - Revised and updated, particularly what the author refers to as "second plumage". Secondary barring still needs care and may well not be definitive in field observations.

At least, it should be definitive when absent.

 

[Blurs80]

I also had a similar bird a day prior with marginally better photos. Would that be identifiable either?
https://ebird.org/checklist/S162431668