Animals skinned alive (1 Viewer)

[Mickymouse]

I agree such material is entirely suitable for an open forum like BF. I disagree, however, with the implication of some earlier posts that young children should be deliberately encouraged to see it. IMO material of this kind is as likely to cause desensitization or nightmares in young children as to influence positively attitudes to animal cruelty.

I agree more or less, I wouldn't show it to my kids just to upset them but next time I'm in a shop with them and they want me to buy them some cheap thing that has fur on it(cheap means probably from China) I shall refuse and if they make an issue of it I shall show them the video as explanation.
PETA might be a bit extreme at times but they are also right at times and this is one of them.

Mick

 

[Mark Bruce]

Signed !

Just a few general comments. Firstly, think of the risks taken in shooting this footage. If the person or people are locals consider the risks they are taking in trying to expose this type of thing. The wrath of those in their community making a living from this. Local law enforcement officials sympathetic to or having interests in the trade and governments that view exposing this stuff as damaging to their regimes so they regard activists as unpatriotic traitors. Activists, their friends and families are often assaulted, abused, isolated by their communities often suffering unemployment etc and even imprisoned for trying to expose this type of thing. Very often their only chance is the voice of the international community.

If you are a foreigner and get caught, you can expect to be roughed up, locked up for a short period and deported. If your life's work is in that country that's quite a blow. There have been cases in East Asia of families being split up where the spouse is a foreigner married to a local and the foreign spouse gets deported or more often denied re-entry after a trip abroad.

Secondly, many large mainstream environmental, wildlife or animal welfare groups don't want to tackle this stuff. The fur trade can get in the way of say their Panda work so they just don't go there. Many large foreign NGOs are very selective in what they tackle because rightly or wrongly they don't want to get thrown out so they turn and blind eye to this type of thing. Often local NGOs have no choice but to work with the more radical foreign organisations because the mainstream ones just wont help them.

Looking at the footage I see EAST was involved. I have a pretty good idea of the identity of the couple that shot some of this then. A very brave East Asian couple that have suffered greatly personally to bring practises like this out into the open over the last decade.

The China-Taiwan issue would be another example. Work with a Taiwan NGO or in Taiwan and you can't work in China. China is bigger so that's where the big organisations go but usually on set agreed terms. The smugglers and the wildlife/fur trade know this so they send their stuff across the Strait so policing it becomes difficult because of the politics.

Too often one hears comments like 'charity starts at home.' 'We have our own environmental problems so I can't get involved with things on the other side of the world.' With global trade what you consume has a direct impact on the other side of the planet. There is a more than 90% chance that the very computer you are using to read this post was, or has parts made, in factories on Taiwan's west coast that are destroying the the critically endangered Taiwan Humpback Dolphin. Now the planet's most endangered cetacean after the functional extinction of the Baiji or Yangtze River Dolphin in late 2006. The water-needs from those factories has resulted in the destruction of the the Fairy Pitta's most important breeding area globally. These are just two species. I could write you a list several pages long of threatened species resulting from the destruction of habitat in western Taiwan in the manufacture of parts for 90% of the world's PCs.

People in this part of the world are taking tremendous risks to shoot this type of footage and bring it to the attention of the rest of the world. Change is only going to happen when the world speaks out against it.

 

[derelict]

It's not pleasant what's been happening but it's no reason to censor a valid subject for discussion. Maybe too many have turned a blind eye to atrocities like these.

I didn't ask for it to be censored, merely restricted on an age basis.

Disgraceful if true. Unfortunately some of us will not sign anything linked to PETA. To me they have absolutely no credibility and will do anything to promote their cause.

With the caveat that I've never watched the video I'd say that the material is based on a short 15 minute "worst of..." compilation video which has been online in one form or another since 2005 originally disseminated via a Swiss outfit though I'm fairly sure Mark Bruce is correct in his supposition as to who actually did the filming. Whether PETA ever had anything to do with it (other than to claim the credit) I know not. There was an accompanying report in 2005 of which I had seen the the 2006 update. It's now December 2008...

The animalsaviors site (why grace them with a link?) was set up in 2007 (clearly it takes time for news to reach Australia) so they're basically a new site showing other people's library material.

Much of this current thread looks like "OMG! Look what I just saw! - share my guilt!" headless chicken stuff. Again I question why birdforum is an appropriate place to have links to what in my view is pornography for sadists. Its not about birds and I doubt that the sites showing this material are ever going to give two hoots about, say, the plight of the english sparrow. Doesn't the bird world have its own campaigns?

As a little footnote based on my recollections, apart from being unregulated the Chinese fur trade differs from the western one in one important regard: almost nothing is wasted. The animals may be produced primarily for their pelts but they are then eaten.

 

[snowyowl]

Yes, I suppose this is the best approach, don't do anything!!!
We don't like change do we?
young Ian.

That's quite a jump. I don't agree with PETA and will not give them credibility by signing anything they are involved with. Apparently that means I don't like change? Shake your head! I've been involved in fighting for animal rights and for the environment since before many people on here were born.

 

[KC Foggin]

I didn't ask for it to be censored, merely restricted on an age basis.

I do think that it is up to the parent to observe what their children are watching on the web and not the Forum site. If that overseeing is not there, it is not the fault of the Forum.

 

[Reader]

You've made your point now back off. There is no need to keep on pushing it once you have made it.

It is down to the rest of the members if they agree with you or not, but I suspect comments like headless chickens won't endear yourself to anyone.

If it's taken this latest video (wherever it came from or how old it is) to stir people in action then so be it.

Oh, and for the record, unbelievably I wasn't aware of this vile practice until I saw this video and I suspect that I am not alone either. But seeing as it was me that started this thread I take offence at all of your nasty comments because indirectly they are aimed at me for starting the thread.

Thank you for that.

John

I didn't ask for it to be censored, merely restricted on an age basis.




With the caveat that I've never watched the video I'd say that the material is based on a short 15 minute "worst of..." compilation video which has been online in one form or another since 2005 originally disseminated via a Swiss outfit though I'm fairly sure Mark Bruce is correct in his supposition as to who actually did the filming. Whether PETA ever had anything to do with it (other than to claim the credit) I know not. There was an accompanying report in 2005 of which I had seen the the 2006 update. It's now December 2008...

The animalsaviors site (why grace them with a link?) was set up in 2007 (clearly it takes time for news to reach Australia) so they're basically a new site showing other people's library material.

Much of this current thread looks like "OMG! Look what I just saw! - share my guilt!" headless chicken stuff. Again I question why birdforum is an appropriate place to have links to what in my view is pornography for sadists. Its not about birds and I doubt that the sites showing this material are ever going to give two hoots about, say, the plight of the english sparrow. Doesn't the bird world have its own campaigns?

As a little footnote based on my recollections, apart from being unregulated the Chinese fur trade differs from the western one in one important regard: almost nothing is wasted. The animals may be produced primarily for their pelts but they are then eaten.

 

[Mark Bruce]

As a little footnote based on my recollections, apart from being unregulated the Chinese fur trade differs from the western one in one important regard: almost nothing is wasted. The animals may be produced primarily for their pelts but they are then eaten.

In some cases, yes but very often, no. A lot depends on location, species and what locals eat and the demand for it. China does have laws but these are seldom enforced so much of what goes on by definition is illegal. Thus the fur trade also includes the hunting of the endangered Chiru where in most instances only the pelt is taken and the carcass is left. With bears sometimes the pelt is taken but all too often it is only the paws and gallbladder. Another example of waste can be seen in shark finning.

An example where this type of footage worked was with the Penghu Dolphin drives in the early 90s. In the Penghu Islands off the South China coast of Fujian Province the locals practised dolphin drives very similar to those in Taiji, Japan. The drives were filmed and the showing resulted in such an outcry that the practise was banned and the drives stopped. Some illegal hunting continues but it is literally a fraction of what the dolphin drives accounted for.

 

[barontan2418]

In some cases, yes but very often, no. A lot depends on location, species and what locals eat and the demand for it. China does have laws but these are seldom enforced so much of what goes on by definition is illegal. Thus the fur trade also includes the hunting of the endangered Chiru where in most instances only the pelt is taken and the carcass is left. With bears sometimes the pelt is taken but all too often it is only the paws and gallbladder. Another example of waste can be seen in shark finning.

An example where this type of footage worked was with the Penghu Dolphin drives in the early 90s. In the Penghu Islands off the South China coast of Fujian Province the locals practised dolphin drives very similar to those in Taiji, Japan. The drives were filmed and the showing resulted in such an outcry that the practise was banned and the drives stopped. Some illegal hunting continues but it is literally a fraction of what the dolphin drives accounted for.

Thanks for your very informative post's Mark and for putting this one back into perspective.