bad taste for Peregrines? (1 Viewer)

[The Tom]

I was not suggesting anything other than the fact that Birdforum is predominantly about wild birds.
A Member could conceivably have an interest in wild birds and falconry,but I would expect them to confine their posts to the discussion of wild birds.

Hi Grousemore
As I have said before I joined bird forum as a bird watcher but as I read through some of the threads started not by pigeon fanciers but by birders I noticed a bias against racing pigeons by some and I reiterate some contributers I therefore try to redress the balance in the name of fairness .

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

Andy I will put this as simply as I can some people in this forum cannot or will not listen to both sides of the argument .

Most Forum users would not consider selfishness a valid argument.

Andy.

 

[Grousemore]

Hi Grousemore
As I have said before I joined bird forum as a bird watcher but as I read through some of the threads started not by pigeon fanciers but by birders I noticed a bias against racing pigeons by some and I reiterate some contributers I therefore try to redress the balance in the name of fairness .

Fair enough,TT,but I'm not sure why you would expect a balance;obviously on a WILD bird forum,the balance of opinion is never going to favour 'pet' birds.

 

[The Tom]

Most Forum users would not consider selfishness a valid argument.

Andy.

Hi Andy
I think your use of the word selfishness proves my point .
I think while you may not agree with my argument you should still accept my right to make it ,we are probably all selfish in our own way but should respect other peoples points of view .

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

Hi Andy
I think your use of the word selfishness proves my point .
I think while you may not agree with my argument you should still accept my right to make it ,we are probably all selfish in our own way but should respect other peoples points of view .

Respect? What about some respect for Nature?

Andy.

 

[James Lowther]

Andy I will put this as simply as I can some people in this forum cannot or will not listen to both sides of the argument .

The Tom, to reiterate my earlier point, there is no argument, just an immovable object and an irresistible force. If Peregrine/Sparrowhawk numbers got so high that pigeon racing was, literally, impossible (a pretty unlikely scenario, but there you go), I STILL wouldn't support a cull on that basis. I cannot, of course, speak for anyone else but I would be surprised if the majority of contributors to this forum did not agree with me. So, if you want an argument, forget about proving that raptors (Anthony, the Peregrine is a raptor, the Sparrowhawk is a raptor also, so there's no need to get defensive over the term) predate racing pigeons, and try and convince us why we should actually give a flying fig. I don't fancy your chances........
James

 

[Anthony Morton]

That is your mentality and YOU are the ones that have lost it.

FACT : You have no argument.

Peregrines are natural, racing pigeons are not!

If that's the case (which it clearly is not!) why are you getting your knickers in such an almighty twist about it? Your problem stems from an inability to present your side of the debate in a logical manner without resorting to cheap jibes. This discussion should be about Taste Aversion Therapy as referred to in the UK Raptor Working Group Report. If you have anything to add on this subject, then let's hear from you!

 

[Anthony Morton]

Anthony Morton and The Tom!

Let me ask you one question. Do you agree with callous poisoning of wild Peregrines (or any raptor)?

NO! Is that plain enough for you?

Come let's have your honest answers!

...

Talking of honesty, what about an answer from you to my earlier question about whether you are a falconer or a keeper of birds of prey?

 

[streatham]

To get back to the topic as Anthony suggests. I for one think it is a great idea to try to limit the numbers of racing pigeons killed - paint them pink, draw stuff on them so they look scary or dip them in foul tasting gunk - whatever can help limit the numbers predated - great. Apart from that I think pigeon fanciers are going to have to accept that a number of their birds are going to go missing for a variety of reasons - perhaps partially down to predation by sprawks and peregrines.

If you want to get people to agree to a cull I think you'll have to join a different forum Anthony - I don't think people here are going to accept the idea of killing wild birds to aid someones ability to enjoy their hobby. Out of interest I'd be interested in the exact numbers of racing birds lost each year to raptor attacks.

Luke

 

[Andrew]

NO! Is that plain enough for you?

If you have the conscience not to agree with killing of Peregrines why are you all of a sudden wanting them controlled?!

Talking of honesty, what about an answer from you to my earlier question about whether you are a falconer or a keeper of birds of prey?

No answer cos it was a stupid comment just as you are accusing me of? Hypocrite.


I am finished as you are presenting a daft argument and you are obviously adopting parliamentary tactics by questioning every comment in an absurd manner.

Goodbye.

 

[me1000]

Dear Mr Morton,
from your reply they must be stupid stocked fish around your abode ,maybe alike the birds you love.

 

[pete1950]

What it does not tell us, however, is the number of pigeons which strayed as a direct result of being attacked while either racing or training. This causes them to fly off in any direction out of sheer panic and consequently becoming lost.

They're not that smart then!

 

[pete1950]

Ignore our protests at your peril we will not go away and will continue to address the debate in order to get the point across

After the anti fox hunting brigade have won round one, and then moved onto Angling, and Shooting, the next target might well be Pigeon Racing because you deliberately put your birds in harms way, expect them to fly across the Channel in inclement weather, these activities could by a small minority be classed as cruel, and they will have to expend their energies somewhere!

You won't be able to hide behind the Royal connections; after all they hunt don't they? Pretty soon they'll no longer be blooding their youngsters.

You may well mock this, but you should be aware, you are in the line.

 

[Andy Ledger]

After the anti fox hunting brigade have won round one, and then moved onto Angling, and Shooting, the next target might well be Pigeon Racing because you deliberately put your birds in harms way, expect them to fly across the Channel in inclement weather, these activities could by a small minority be classed as cruel, and they will have to expend their energies somewhere!

You won't be able to hide behind the Royal connections; after all they hunt don't they? Pretty soon they'll no longer be blooding their youngsters.

You may well mock this, but you should be aware, you are in the line.

Good point, well made. PETA would hate pigeon racing. They'd hate pigeon ownership, too, so you're in a bit of a cleft stick there.

 

[Pie Face]

Strange how we never here about the millions of young racing pigeons that have their necks pulled, by the owners, just because they don't make the grade. This is common practice among the racing fraternity, a colleague of mine, who races pigeons, openly admits this.

Mark

(also posted on a similar thread)

 

[Andrew]

Strange how we never here about the millions of young racing pigeons that have their necks pulled, by the owners, just because they don't make the grade. This is common practice among the racing fraternity, a colleague of mine, who races pigeons, openly admits this.

Mark

(also posted on a similar thread)

Well they should be grateful for the Peregrines sorting the wheat from the chaff for them and saving them the unpleasant business of pulling their necks. Unless they actually enjoy doing it to look hard down the pub.

 

[Nightranger]

This thread started with the half-baked notion called contained in the Government sponsored UK Raptor Working Group's report (supported by the RSPB by the way) which, among other things, suggested that racing pigeons should be smeared with an evil-tasting substance to teach Peregrine Falcons that pigeons are not good to eat. All that was missing from this daft idea was that it didn't begin with those immortal words; 'Once upon a time' - because it is pure fairy story and is fortunatelya point which both sides in this current debate seem to agree on.

Firstly, let me get your cheap sniping out of the way. The RSPB may well be a member of the Raptor Working Group but that does NOT mean that this idea was cooked up by the RSPB as you seem to be implying. I know you are way too clever to actively think the RSPB has formulated this idea and I am disappointed to see you using inference in this way. If anyone is interested, this is a link to the relevant webpage that explains who else is involved:
http://www.jncc.gov.uk/species/Birds/Raptor/raptors.pdf
Interestingly, if we use your reasoning then we have to accept that at least one Homing organisation submitted evidence and they surely are equally part of the process. Anthony with respect, it is this kind of rhetorical thinking that we must remove before we can get some clear agreements. How can we figure where or whether there is a problem if words are constantly being fudged?

Secondly, let me come back to the issue of non-killing solutions because I am interested to know why there is so much resistance to this from certain people. I am certainly doubtful if taste-aversion would work but it seems to me that this is irrelevant if fanciers are not prepared to look at non-destructive options in the first place. I know there is already a great deal of opposition to wing transfers yet it is clear that some people have never tried them because some people claim they do not work. Of course, it is impossible to get a 100% effective deterrent for anything but is that justification for not trying? Think of it this way, if you are crossing a road, you always look to make sure nothing is coming even if you are on a quiet cul-de-sac. Do you stop looking even when you cannot hear anything coming? Of course not, it is a basic precaution even if it does not stop you tripping over a hole in the road or some other unnoticed hazard. You probably do not feel the analogy is appropriate but you have to realise that is how some fancier's submissions seem at times. We all have a tendency to try and promote ourselves as individuals or as a group but we must be aware that in doing that, we also create imp-ressions of ourselves. The more we get into deeper areas of opinion, the more we are prone to facts and figures and it is time for a step-back and a more dispassionate approach. The real danger is getting into opinion and presenting it as fact through careful wording.

 

[Andrew]

Got another juicy bit here from the other active thread . . .

If you had a racing pigeon-less society, which some here seem to be advocating, what effect would this have on the UK's songbirds and what action would you suggest should be taken to redress the balance?

So he says we NEED to have Racing Pigeons flyiong about to protect our song birds but he does not want he Pigeons killed in the first place!?!?

That is a mighty fine big hole he has dug!

 

[Edward woodwood]

Ha Ha Ha
this thread is still running

hilarious

it's like trying to 'sensibly' debate politics with the BNP. The two 'sides' here have arguments that diverge from the start - the more you discuss, the further away from a concensus (which cannot exist here) you get. And if you read the thread you will realise this and see what an utter waste of time a post here is!!!

Peregrines eat yer pigeons - so what? You can't cull wild birds cos a few 'pigeon fanciers' are upset about losing their birds.

 

[The Tom]

Ha Ha Ha
this thread is still running

hilarious

it's like trying to 'sensibly' debate politics with the BNP. The two 'sides' here have arguments that diverge from the start - the more you discuss, the further away from a concensus (which cannot exist here) you get. And if you read the thread you will realise this and see what an utter waste of time a post here is!!!

Peregrines eat yer pigeons - so what? You can't cull wild birds cos a few 'pigeon fanciers' are upset about losing their birds.

Hi Tim
Do hope your not trying to class pigeon flyers with the BNP if so it would be a cheap jibe and not worthy of this forum .