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Birds in flight (again) (1 Viewer)

Clive Watson

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit ampheta
Looking to (possibly) get a mirrorless camera for birds in flight. Something that will make a decent job of locking properly on to, say, seabirds taken on a pelagic trip. Never used mirrorless before. Someone I know suggested an R7, someone else I spoke to recently said the R7 autofocus isn't good enough and I should get an R6 mk 2. So which is best? Is it even possible to answer this question? Should I be looking outside Canon to, say, Sony?
 
No problem with me with the R7 autofocus in the 11 months I've been using mine. These shots all taken with the R7 this year. Like other cameras it sometimes gets a bit confused with twigs, blades of grass and stuff, but that's manageable. Since I got it, I've been using it for almost all my birding shots, taking advantage of its crop sensor's extra reach over my R5, which I've used for everything else since the R7 arrived.
 

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I just noticed afterwards that the OP refers specifically to seabirds. Most of these are quite heavy crops, Sandwich & Roseate Terns taken from a boat, the rest on the shore.
 

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One way in which the full frame R5, and presumably similarly the R6 (I've not used an R6 or R6 II), beats the crop sensor R7, is in acquiring and following birds in flight, or rapidly running birds crossing the frame on the ground. The wider field of view with the full frame camera means the target takes up less of the frame in the same lens and so takes longer to crtoss the frame and you have more time to do it. It's for that reason that when I was using the R5 for birds I used the full frame mode with the camera rather than the available 1.6 crop facility. It was just easier to find and hold the bird in motion in the first place. If you're coming directly from another 1.6 crop sensor, this shouldn't be a disadvantage, because you'll be used to doing it with your existing kit if you use the same focal length lens on both.
 
A few more from the boat in June. Heavy crops.
 

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Looking to (possibly) get a mirrorless camera for birds in flight. Something that will make a decent job of locking properly on to, say, seabirds taken on a pelagic trip. Never used mirrorless before. Someone I know suggested an R7, someone else I spoke to recently said the R7 autofocus isn't good enough and I should get an R6 mk 2. So which is best? Is it even possible to answer this question? Should I be looking outside Canon to, say, Sony?
The serious bird photographers I know are mostly using the R5 now. Its ability to find and lock onto an eye is a game-changer. The large sensor is just a lot more versatile than a crop sensor. One of my birding buddies carries his everywhere and uses it even if he can't quite see the bird - the camera will find it more often than not (the "spray and pray" technique).
 
The R7 is a great camera,once you've mastered it's AF system.That said i've got good action shots with the R6 too,a lot comes down to practice.
 
Thanks all. This has stemmed from a trip to Long Nanny in June where I spent some time photographing the Arctic Terns (no, I didn't see the American Black Tern) with a 7D and a 400mm f5.6 lens. Considering how many shots I took and how obliging the birds were the success rate was very poor. Even when I was able to follow a bird it just wouldn't track anything and was constantly hunting back and forth for something. I tried it a few days later on the auks at Bempton and basically got nothing. The AF simply wasn't good enough and I just think it's time to get something better. I used to use an old 1D mk 2 for BIF and that was considerably better, but that's given up the ghost now.
 
I acquired an R7 last September (coming from a 7DII) and developed a love-hate relationship with it. Yes it can take great photos (including BIF), but there are areas where I really struggled with it. The AF doesn't really do that well in a Scottish winter. The lack of a third adjustment dial severely limits control options for my style of shooting. In May I switched to an R5 (and also bought an RF100-500) and haven't looked back. I now feel much more comfortable making adjustments on the fly and I find post processing to be far less labour intensive. I fully appreciate that some of this is highly personal - just look at Barred Wobbler's photos showing what the R7 can do for instance.

Rob
 
To be honest I'd ruled out the R5 on the basis of cost. The guy who I sometimes bump into who is on at me to get an R7 claims that the R5 (which he has) is great but has loads of features one doesn't really need for bird photography.

Any opinions about the R6? The person I spoke to in the hides at Rye Harbour was insistent that the AF system on the R6 mk 2 is much better than the R7.
 
My view on autofocus is simply 'Does it do the job that I want it to?'. I'm not concerned that there might be a slightly better system on a slightly newer or more expensive model. I too came from a 7D and 400/5.6, moving on to a 7D II on the day it was released in late 2014 in the hope that its alleged improved low light performance would get me better shots in the gloom of early morning forests on an upcoming first trip to India. It was an improvement, but marginal. Anything over 1SO 800 or 1250 was as noisy as a rock concert. In 2015 I moved on from the 400 to the new Sigma 150-600 Sport and hefted its weight around with relative ease, taking shots as well as I could of birds in flight on my trips to the raptor migration in Spain as well as our local seabirds, including the terns at Long Nanny. Thousands of shots for dozens of keepers. It was hard work.

When the R5 arrived in 2020 it was time to leave my 7D II in the cupboard for a well-earned retirement and I was blown away immediately by the autofocus and eye detection, particularly when I bought an RF100-500 six months later, which consigned my Sigma to its retirement plan. Its high ISO performance in low light is stunning too. ISO 5000 or 6400 are easily usable and I've gone much higher when the situation warranted. I did consider the R6 at the time, but my need to often crop hard for flight shots in particular meant that the 45MP of the R5 was the game-changer against the 20MP of the R6. Even cropped at 1.6 times in body the R5 still turns out a 17.5MP image, not far off the starting point of a 7D, with the added benefit of actually being in focus. The R5 served me well and I loved it, I still do, even if the eye detection would sometimes latch on to buds or twigs instead of a warbler's eye in a bush. I soon learned to get around this by using my first choice back button for eye detect and a second for spot focus as a back-up. A trip to Spain for the spring migration in 2022 after Covid problems eased gave me many hundreds of keepers of birds in flight, rather than the dozens of the 7D II. I still felt short on reach, though and when I saw the specs on the crop sensor R7 when it was announced, especially the price point, I ordered one there and then.

It took 3 months to arrive - just in time for my upcoming autumn trip to Spain for migration at the end of August and I was bursting at the seams to give it a run-out. Unfortunately a health problem in the form of a stroke - thankfully mild - just a week later meant the trip the following week had to be called off. In the months since I've almost completely recovered and in March and May I got away to give my R7 a couple of run-outs in Fuerteventura and Tarifa. It performed well on both occasions. Its 32.5 MP sensor is very cropable, being the equivalent of something like 82MP on a full frame. I do try to avoid full Electonic Shutter, because it can give pronounced rolling shutter problems much worse than the R5, although it has its place in chosen circumstances. My preferred option is Electronic First Curtain, with its 15fps and no rolling shutter at all.

I still use my R5 for everything else, landscapes, night shots, people, family, steam trains, aircraft etc, but for birds it's been the R7 almost every time.
 
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Regarding R7 low light performance, that wood pigeon flight shot above was taken on a dull day in the first week of January in Northumberland, with an ISO of 4000, although I tend not to go out lately if the light is crap unless it's for something special.
 
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OM1 from OM system gets a lot of good press at the moment
Niels
Just been looking at this - very tempting! But then I'd need a new lens. All my lenses are Canon. Is it possible to get an adaptor to fit a Canon lens on an Olympus body? A quick search suggests most adaptors work the other way round.
 
Just been looking at this - very tempting! But then I'd need a new lens. All my lenses are Canon. Is it possible to get an adaptor to fit a Canon lens on an Olympus body? A quick search suggests most adaptors work the other way round.
For example:
The latter is a speed-booster, reducing reach and increasing aperture of the lens.

I have no experience with these as I do not own a canon lens. At least one person here does have such experience:

Niels
 
My view on autofocus is simply 'Does it do the job that I want it to?'. I'm not concerned that there might be a slightly better system on a slightly newer or more expensive model. I too came from a 7D and 400/5.6, moving on to a 7D II on the day it was released in late 2014 in the hope that its alleged improved low light performance would get me better shots in the gloom of early morning forests on an upcoming first trip to India. It was an improvement, but marginal. Anything over 1SO 800 or 1250 was as noisy as a rock concert. In 2015 I moved on from the 400 to the new Sigma 150-600 Sport and hefted its weight around with relative ease, taking shots as well as I could of birds in flight on my trips to the raptor migration in Spain as well as our local seabirds, including the terns at Long Nanny. Thousands of shots for dozens of keepers. It was hard work.

When the R5 arrived in 2020 it was time to leave my 7D II in the cupboard for a well-earned retirement and I was blown away immediately by the autofocus and eye detection, particularly when I bought an RF100-500 six months later, which consigned my Sigma to its retirement plan. Its high ISO performance in low light is stunning too. ISO 5000 or 6400 are easily usable and I've gone much higher when the situation warranted. I did consider the R6 at the time, but my need to often crop hard for flight shots in particular meant that the 45MP of the R5 was the game-changer against the 20MP of the R6. Even cropped at 1.6 times in body the R5 still turns out a 17.5MP image, not far off the starting point of a 7D, with the added benefit of actually being in focus. The R5 served me well and I loved it, I still do, even if the eye detection would sometimes latch on to buds or twigs instead of a warbler's eye in a bush. I soon learned to get around this by using my first choice back button for eye detect and a second for spot focus as a back-up. A trip to Spain for the spring migration in 2022 after Covid problems eased gave me many hundreds of keepers of birds in flight, rather than the dozens of the 7D II. I still felt short on reach, though and when I saw the specs on the crop sensor R7 when it was announced, especially the price point, I ordered one there and then.

It took 3 months to arrive - just in time for my upcoming autumn trip to Spain for migration at the end of August and I was bursting at the seams to give it a run-out. Unfortunately a health problem in the form of a stroke - thankfully mild - just a week later meant the trip the following week had to be called off. In the months since I've almost completely recovered and in March and May I got away to give my R7 a couple of run-outs in Fuerteventura and Tarifa. It performed well on both occasions. Its 32.5 MP sensor is very cropable, being the equivalent of something like 82MP on a full frame. I do try to avoid full Electonic Shutter, because it can give pronounced rolling shutter problems much worse than the R5, although it has its place in chosen circumstances. My preferred option is Electronic First Curtain, with its 15fps and no rolling shutter at all.

I still use my R5 for everything else, landscapes, night shots, people, family, steam trains, aircraft etc, but for birds it's been the R7 almost every time.
Many thanks for taking the time to write this detailed reply and as someone who has experience of the effects caused by strokes (not to me, thankfully) I wish you good health.
 
Evening All, I wrote to the group a few weeks ago about me changing my equipment (80D, various lens including a Canon 500 F4), well I have taken the plunge and traded it all in and now have a R7 with the RF100-500 lens. Its taken me a while to get use to some of the updated systems and know doubt it will be a while before I understand what I am doing and trying to get it right. But I am enjoying the new outfit and the tracking system is great! I have only managed to get out a couple of times since getting the R7 and attached (if I get it right) are some of my results. Nothing fantastic, but would like to hear from you all on your thoughts and if I am heading in the right direction.
One question I do have, if anyone can help. Sometimes when I look through the viewfinder it goes black. I move the camera away and look again and all is okay or I have pressed the shutter button and the viewfinder comes back on. Is there a box I have not ticked or unticked that I should be looking for.?

I am in your hands.

Kind regards

Steve
 

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