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Black eared Wheater in Devon (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Roy C
- Start date
dan pointon
Can't Stop
Where was it, Roy?
Xenospiza
Distracted
Just read your edit. An easterly bird, judging from its greyish back, and I think the scaly back could be a good marker for Pied. Do you have more pictures? I'll go and dig up the literature now!
(just a short search already gives me headache with these plumages...)
(just a short search already gives me headache with these plumages...)
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draycotebirding
Draycote recorder
shorebirder
Well-known member
Leaning towards Black-eared. look at amount of black along length of outer tail feather. Pied wheatear I think is not so extensive, black stopping much lower on outer feathers.
Good find, interesting to see other comments.
Good find, interesting to see other comments.
Edward woodwood
Member
tail pattern is pretty much indistinguishable unless it's a BEW with almost entirely white outers (unlike this bird...)
Pied can have prim projection clearly longer than terts while BEW can be shorter
the cold brown grey fringed back and paler greyish nape might point to Pied...
and they readily hybridise
Pied can have prim projection clearly longer than terts while BEW can be shorter
the cold brown grey fringed back and paler greyish nape might point to Pied...
and they readily hybridise
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I usually associate such greyish wash on the back formed by the paler edges to the feathers with Pied Wheatear (but I'm not an expert). Here's a Pied Wheatear from Estonia for comparison (it looks pretty similar, although the breast band isn't as pronounced):
http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?pic_id=masa1098984811&lang=eng
As others already have asked, are there more pictures?
http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?pic_id=masa1098984811&lang=eng
As others already have asked, are there more pictures?
This is going to be a hard one to prove! I'm not seeing much scaling. My gut reaction is BEW, but I am a very very long way off being confident.
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Gavin Haig
Well-known member
If it was a Black-eared I would have thought the crown, nape, mantle, scaps etc would have shown an obvious warmish tone (as the underparts do) - a bit more sandy-coloured. As it is, there is evidently a contrast, with the upperparts noticeably 'colder' and greyer. Along with the slightly 'scaly' appearance already mentioned, I am persuaded towards Pied. Circumstantially, the mid-November appearance of a Black-eared is very nearly without precedent in the British Isles, whereas late autumn is the season of choice for Pied.
That said, this was interesting:
Any one know of any presumed occurences in the UK???
PS - I'll bet this is a bit gripping for a few Devon birders!|=)|
PPS
That said, this was interesting:
Any one know of any presumed occurences in the UK???
PS - I'll bet this is a bit gripping for a few Devon birders!|=)|
PPS
Check out the shady side of the bird in the front-on shots, especially the right hand one. EDIT - and I'm not talking about the lesser coverts!
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Both species will have scaling on the lesser coverts (clearly visible in the photos) - more important is the depth of scaling on the crown, mantle and scapulars. In particular, I think male pied should have much blacker centres to the scapulars, making the scaling seem much heavier there (e.g. see the pics in post #5). The centres don't seem so blackish on this bird. The scaling on the crown and mantle don't look particularly heavy to me, and the ground colour feels a bit buffy for a Pied.
Perhaps more importantly, what about the throat? Given that it's a male, a Pied would have blackish bases to the central throat feathers, unless it was a rare vittata form. This bird clearly doesn't.
Perhaps a slight negative for Eastern Black-eared is the paleness of the lores - wouldn't we expect to see black feather bases on the lower portion of the lores, going right up over the bill base? It also has a very big supercillium - could that be an anti EBE feature?
A very tricky bird, but if it gets clinched, I wouldn't be too surprised if it turned out to be melanoleuca... Either way, a wicked find.
Perhaps more importantly, what about the throat? Given that it's a male, a Pied would have blackish bases to the central throat feathers, unless it was a rare vittata form. This bird clearly doesn't.
Perhaps a slight negative for Eastern Black-eared is the paleness of the lores - wouldn't we expect to see black feather bases on the lower portion of the lores, going right up over the bill base? It also has a very big supercillium - could that be an anti EBE feature?
A very tricky bird, but if it gets clinched, I wouldn't be too surprised if it turned out to be melanoleuca... Either way, a wicked find.
There was a 1st w Pied at Easington about 10 years ago that was similar to this bird - the only one I've seen in this country. I wasn't confident about that one either!
birder of the south
Formerly Lee Fuller
Still there today according to RBA so hopefully its identity will be known soon. Personally Im hoping EBW coz I had the Norfolk Pied Wheatear a while back but either way a good find and a nice bird.
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Black Wheatear
Bowed but not broken, yet!
For what it might be worth, possible not a lot, after studying both BEW and PW (in fact Oenanthes in general), I would lean towards PW. The upper tones don't look right for BEW as indeed nor does the extent of white to the tail (think tail would rule out most known hybrids o.hispanica x o.pleschanka). One of the reasons for these 2 species being difficult to seperate is the fact that where their breeding ranges overlap then hybridization is very extensive (species fushion). The other aspects to bear in mind is length of outer primary (slightly longer in o.hispanica) and the tarsus which is longer in o.pleschanka, the later being another possible reason for leaning towards PW in this case. Only my opinion, but hope it is useful.
Steve Waite
What you looking at?
I vote for Pied. But they can be so tricky, I know of a bird trapped in Shetlands, that wasn't accepted as either - because they just didn't know!!!!
Check out this 1W male Pied here, looks alot like the bird in question....
Agreed, the Devon bird does appear quite 'leggy' doesn't it!
Check out this 1W male Pied here, looks alot like the bird in question....
Agreed, the Devon bird does appear quite 'leggy' doesn't it!
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Edward woodwood
Member
the blackish throat feather centres on a Pied are only visible due to wear - i remember it was onluy possible to see them on the norfolk bird when the wind ruffled the featers up
the warm tones to the upper breast are perhaps moe of a BEW feature; the 'species' are remarkably simialr though and even sound rather similar (unusual in most good species) May just be that like Yellowhammer and Pine Bunt song / voice is/was not that important in speciation process and where they meet they do as i mentioned above hybridise quiet readily
the warm tones to the upper breast are perhaps moe of a BEW feature; the 'species' are remarkably simialr though and even sound rather similar (unusual in most good species) May just be that like Yellowhammer and Pine Bunt song / voice is/was not that important in speciation process and where they meet they do as i mentioned above hybridise quiet readily
lou salomon
the birdonist
very tricky pair of sp. i think we can rule out western hispanica. but, having seen a lot of pied, some melanoluca (but only 2 in autumn) and some hybrids in romania, i tend to go with roy's arguments (post 14) and lean towards eastern BEW. even within pied mantle tone can be quite variable and this one doesn't look particularly cold toned to me, nor does it look as scaly as i'd expect it for a typical pleschanka. together with very warm tones on underparts and lower edge of dark throat (later black) not going down as far as usually in pied this makes it tendentially a melanoleuca in my opinion. tail pattern inconclusive as tim mentioned (less white, more black in younger birds, more white in older and individually highly variable).
