British List equivalent for other countries? (1 Viewer)

[l_raty]

I expect Arnoud to follow the broadest possible definition of Cat C, but all of them have (or in case of the culled House Crow: had) self-sustaining populations, so I actually agree – not something I say everyday, haha!
Two of them would be "C5" when using the UK categories: the Chilean Flamingos from the Zwillbrocker Venn winter in Zeeland; Sacred Ibises from western France have occurred in the Netherlands.

Not sure Arnoud really thinks of this list as having to meet any definition of Cat C... (And, indeed, the definition currently used in Belgium is probably one of the strictest possible. Note Mandarin is not on the list... Not that I really care, btw.)
Chilean (and European) Flamingos from the ZV have occurred in Belgium as well but these are treated here (both spp) as escapes (Cat E). (We would need the population to be in Cat C in the country where it breeds to accept it as such here. It's not.)

 

[shymollymawk]

The official Norwegian list can be downloaded as an excel-file here, also containing statistics. Better avoid bubo and avibase linked above, they both contain a scaring number of errors...

Norgeslisten - BirdLife Norge

Hi Tor Bubo are happy to accept corrections and updates if you'd like to contribute I do so myself for countries I know well and have "official" (ie the relevant birders organisation) information for.

 

[Tor Olsen]

Hi Tor Bubo are happy to accept corrections and updates if you'd like to contribute I do so myself for countries I know well and have "official" (ie the relevant birders organisation) information for.

The link in my previous post is the official list for Norway, i.e. the list that has been verified by the rarities committee of BirdLife Norway. It's updated up to 2021 so comparison with the Bubo list should be what you need to update.

So far 2022 has produced the first documented records of Cretzschmar's Bunting and Griffon Vulture both which undoubtly will be added to the list, as well as Yellow-browed Bunting, but the latter may be up for discussion with regards to categorizaion. Anyway, these three speceies may be added. Also, all previously accepted records of Steppe Buzzard B. b. vulpinus have recently been rejected and will be deleted in the next update of the list.

 

[Earnest lad]

The Dutch list is here: https://www.dutchavifauna.nl/static/images/page/webprog20220824-131.pdf
There are no categories in the Dutch list as introduced species are not considered to be part of the list.
However, introduced species with established populations are listed separately for those who feel the need to have a Cat C list for the Netherlands.

Thank you so much I just downloaded the dutch list LOL using your helpful link

 

[Earnest lad]

Oh that would be so nice, but we are pretty far from it. Most importantly finding what's on a country's list is sometimes almost impossible without knowledge of the local language. And the lists change, sometimes quite quickly.

I was trying to find an authoritative list for Portugal last year, but the webpages of their rarity committee did not work. There is a WP-wide AERC list, which, for cat. C birds notes which species count in which country - but the last one I know is ... 2015 I think? And since then, one cat. C species has been already culled in Portugal ... And some more are widely recognized as established, but there is no real list to be find.

Even funnier is the situation for Canaries, where there is a local organization holding a list, but the Spanish RC is claiming authority as well and their list is different!


Anyway, the Czech list is Faunistická komise ČSO - it's in Czech, but has Latin and English names. Categories are as expected, you can ask me for any questions, I know always some RC members

Polish list is Lista - Komisja Faunistyczna - I don't know if there is an English version, but has at least Latin names. Again, I can talk to an RC member if needed, he may be still angry with me though

That is most interesting. It can be helpful having a countries list because if the bird is genuinely wild in one country you can tick it off only then in spite of previously seeing it in another country

 

[Earnest lad]

Western Palearctic

BUBO Listing - World Bird Listing. Record, share and compare your bird lists for any location worldwide using the most accurate checklists available

bubo.org

Country lists here. Other listing sites may have similar. In terms of introduced or feral species that is probably a bit of can of worms, with different countries/authorities applying different criteria? But one approach is to accept what each country does for birds that you see in that country.

(I guess you can easily enough apply the category logic to most sightings based on your own birding logic/knowledge? Inasmuch as most species that you will have encountered will happen to be Cat A equivalent)

Thank you danthe man . I am pleased to know this resource. I am interested also in lists for the countries along with the category too.

 

[Earnest lad]

Bulgaria list available here from BUNARCO

HTH

Chris

Thank you very much. I am so grateful as there is a lot of useful information in that link

 

[Earnest lad]

The Belgian list is at BRBC - Belgian Rarity Bird Committee

For Cat A-B, go to "Data", then "Checklist" (direct access: Belgian checklist)
For Cat C, go to "Data", then "C Category" (direct access: Belgian checklist - C category)

(I'm afraid these lists cannot be downloaded as a separate .pdf or .xls file. Beware that, in the A-B list, the links associated to rare species, which direct you to a list of records of each species, will work only if you access the list through the main page of the website. The main list currently pretends to be "Updated on January 20th, 2020", but is actually much more up-to-date than this. It includes new species recorded in 2021, and accepted in early 2022.)




Like the Dutch, we do not consider exotic species to be part of the (main) list. Unlike the Dutch, however, we do use standard AERC categories. (Hence we place some of these exotic species in a Cat C list, which we keep separate of the main list. Belgian listers/twitchers do not include these species in their Belgian totals, although those engaged in WP listing may end up counting them on their WP list. Note that the criteria used for accession to Cat C on the Belgian list are quite clearly much more restrictive than those used for inclusion as an "established" taxon on the Dutch list, which are obviously pretty loose.

That is most helpful indeed. I am very interested in category so that is good

 

[Earnest lad]

Hi Tor Bubo are happy to accept corrections and updates if you'd like to contribute I do so myself for countries I know well and have "official" (ie the relevant birders organisation) information for.

I am amassing an ever growing resource of vital bird list information . Many thanks

 

[Earnest lad]

Avibase - The World Bird Database

avibase.bsc-eoc.org

Dear Paul Thank you. Is there an Howard and Moore world list in that website please?

 

[Paul Clapham]

Dear Paul Thank you. Is there an Howard and Moore world list in that website please?

No. You can get checklists for many places there in H&M form, but unfortunately not world lists.

 

[Earnest lad]

No. You can get checklists for many places there in H&M form, but unfortunately not world lists.

Thank you so much for the clarification. I see from an earlier contributer the copyright is jealously guarded.

 

[njlarsen]

Earnest, I think you are underestimating the job you are taking on. In your place, I would start using something like Scythebill and record your sightings in such a program. The better level of detail it is recorded with the better.

To illustrate: a few years ago, Italian Sparrow was not even recognized as a subspecies. When it became recognized, it was not the entire country, so where in the country would be important to know.
Niels

 

[Björn Bergenholtz]

And remember, geography alone is not a secure way to identify any subspecies (or species).

Birds do fly astray.

 

[awiner]

And remember, geography alone is not a secure way to identify any subspecies (or species).

Birds do fly astray.

Eh, it depends. For non-migratory birds (e.g., most of the residents in the tropics), geography is an extremely secure way to identify subspecies; if you're in the Marañon valley of Peru, and saw a Tropical Gnatcatcher, you saw ssp. maior. etc.

 

[opisska]

Has that been studied in practice? I presume a lot of the subspecies are pretty much impossible to ID by sighting, so they'd have to trapped and measured - as far as I know systematic ringing doesn't really happen much across the tropics, so it would have to be some dedicated studies. But I have no idea what the coverage is, really, so if someone has a quantitative answer regarding perhaps some specific species and what level of ssp. vagrancy into the range of other ssp. has been seen (or excluded), that would be interesting.

 

[Mysticete]

Has that been studied in practice? I presume a lot of the subspecies are pretty much impossible to ID by sighting, so they'd have to trapped and measured - as far as I know systematic ringing doesn't really happen much across the tropics, so it would have to be some dedicated studies. But I have no idea what the coverage is, really, so if someone has a quantitative answer regarding perhaps some specific species and what level of ssp. vagrancy into the range of other ssp. has been seen (or excluded), that would be interesting.

Subspecies themselves are sort of a poorly defined group, and have been neglected overall by taxonomists. A lot of subspecies are probably not valid at all, some are taxa that would be better represented as species, and some are diagnosable entities that seem appropriate to recognize at the subspecies level but probably not at the species level (both levels of course being arbitrary to some degree).

Juncos and wagtail subspecies seem to prone to vagrancy, and are field identifiable, or at least most are. Oregon Juncos for instance regularly wander to the Eastern US.