(?) Bunting ID (2 Viewers)

[CJW]

Just another thought (and I'm by no means saying it is so), are the cold tones and grey lesser coverts not indicative of Pallas' Reed Bunting? Or do the features you have mentioned which negate Reed Bunting still apply?

 

[logos]

Compared to Pallas's this bird has too curved a culmen and too much streaking on the flanks (ad. Pallas's has unstreaked flanks in fact) etc.

Spud

 

[CJW]

Interesting, thanks.
Have a look at this link. I know it's only a 'query' Pallas' but it shows flank streaking, however I'll bow to you superior knowledge.
http://members.aol.com/jrhough1/Pallass.jpg

 

[logos]

I've a feeling this bird was actually accepted as the first for Nepal. Dark flanks streaking is a characteristic of juvenile birds but adults have no flanks streaking, or if they do it is diffuse and a pale orange rufous colour.

The Nepal bird may be retaining juvenile body plumage (which would be odd at the date) or may have grown second generation feathers similar in pattern to juvenile feathers (possible?). I notice that the descriptions of the flanks and the illustrations of this do not coincide well!

The bill structure is shown well and clearly differs from the Lesvos bird.

Spud

 

[CJW]

OK, thanks. I see what you mean about the bill size/shape.

 

[gerdwichers8]

Anyone for a Corn Bunting

 

[JANJ]

Yes Me!

JanJ

 

[Jane Turner]

How common is white(ish) outer TF on Corn Bunting?

Or is it just very old faded feathers?

 

[Jane Turner]

Here is another allegedly yellow-less, chunky-billed Cirl - this time with a very convincing head-pattern

 

[JANJ]

Good point Jane - Corn Buntings normally lack white in tail. Check these and note the pale outer tf:

http://www.stevenround-birdphotography.com/Corn Bunting.htm

http://www.microbirding.se/ystad/images/pictures/Kornsparv050306_AA.jpg

JanJ

 

[Jane Turner]

Also the bill colour and big rusty tertial/covert fringes? Mantle lines look a bit strong too.

 

[Motmot]

I think it can be a young moulting bird. When Corn Buntings leave their nests they show paler than adults outer tail feathers but the quality of these is very bad (they perform a full moult a couple of months later). These feathers are worn in a short time, by August they can look very pale and worn as the subject bird shows.
See this recently fledged spanish bird to see the pale OTF:

http://www.anillamiento.net/guia/details.php?image_id=1754

Also bill colour fits young bird.

http://www.anillamiento.net/guia/details.php?image_id=1752

 

[gerdwichers8]

In the beginning of August, Corn Bunting are found in heavy moult in Turkey which seems to be the case in this bird: inner rectrices are newly moulted feathers, the outer ones are old and faded. Not white but indeed faded!

 

[Jane Turner]

Surely this bird is an adult though?

 

[Motmot]

Surely this bird is an adult though?

No, I think is a young bird moulting into first winter plumage=adult, its outer tail feathers still juvenile and already worn in August

 

[Jane Turner]

The photo was taken in Aug - though Corn Bunt does have a full post juv moult, the fading on the old primary (longest/outermost showing) seems a bit much for say 5 weeks.

 

[Motmot]

Maybe but look at the unmoulted primaries, they look brown but fine. Check this tail and wing tip of an adult in August:

http://www.anillamiento.net/guia/details.php?image_id=1749

 

[Jane Turner]

Maybe but look at the unmoulted primaries, they look brown but fine. Check this tail and wing tip of an adult in August:

http://www.anillamiento.net/guia/details.php?image_id=1749

Was that caught by hand - it looks like it couldn't fly!!

You are right - the unmoulted primary is very much paler, but also hardly worn at all. Seen close up, the remaining tertials still look surprisingly chestnuty for a Corn Bunting and the mantle looks like it has lines as opposed to fine streaks.

 

[Motmot]

Yes, those lines on the mantle look strange on a Corn...also those pointed looking tertials don´t look too good on a Corn...mmmmmh

Lots of pics of young and adult (January) CornBs in this link:

Sorry changed the link

http://www.ibercajalav.net/img/454_Miliaria_calandra.pdf

 

[Jane Turner]

and furthermore it would be very unlike spud to be wrong