Can you do it all with one pair of binos? (1 Viewer)

[APSmith]

Thanks Jay. Unfortunately, the Swift porros are too large for an "only" set. The $350 price tag puts it at/above the top of my range, and doesn't give me a good option when travelling.

Christopher,
I have some fresh advise:
It is possible/likely that you will eventually need at least two binos to cover all the bases. Read AlexisPowell's posts #21&24, in the thread: "binocular regrets". He describes a personal Reference Set, for which we are all, in one way or another, searching. Also, since you mentioned the Pentax SP, I feel you have entered new territory - just a step or two away from the top. This is dangerous and expensive territory, and could become a mini-hobby in itself.

So, do you have to try to completely cover all the bases now at your current $ limit ('cause you probably won't be able to)? If not, you can concentrate on one set of conditions for now. Get a model that is completely satisfactory for that category, even if you have to spend a little extra.

BTW What do you currently use?

Good Luck!

 

[Macaoidh]

I do appreciate your advice. My Wife and I are very new (neophyte) bird/nauture watchers, and my Wife greatly enjoys watching all the birds and their goings on that occur even in our backyard. So for sure, more than just identifying species, though you always want to know what you're looking at!

The only pair of binoculars we currently have is a junk pair of 7x35 porros. They're horrible. No eye relief, wavy image off of the smallest of center areas. They'd probably cost $10 on ebay nowadays.

Enough belabouring that. Needless to say, even a $50 pair of binos would be a large improvement, but I hate to buy something to find out that I could have spent a bit more and gotten a lot more quality.

We have two upcoming trips to Colorado and Utah, with time to be spent in the mountains with the kids (young kids), and we'd like to be able to take the binos there as well, but with everything else you have to outfit yourself with for even a little nature walk with children, large binos become clumsy and hard to tuck away. Looking through glass will not be the primary purpose there for sure, but it would be nice to have something to check out what we do stumble onto.

This is why I was trying to find something to fit the "do it all" bill, that's still compact enough to travel easily with, yet comfortable enough to view through that they could be used as a primary binoc. -Anything- is an improvement at this time, even a set of Prostaffs! 8x28-32 seemed to me to be the best compromise of compactness and a view that you could really relax and not feel like you were straining with (like most compacts).

Sorry for the long winded answer.

Best,
Christopher

PS To finally answer an earlier question, I may wear glasses with the binos, but I don't have to. I have minimal astigmatism, and my diopter difference eye to eye is only about 1 diopter.

Christopher,
I have some fresh advise:
It is possible/likely that you will eventually need at least two binos to cover all the bases. Read AlexisPowell's posts #21&24, in the thread: "binocular regrets". He describes a personal Reference Set, for which we are all, in one way or another, searching. Also, since you mentioned the Pentax SP, I feel you have entered new territory - just a step or two away from the top. This is dangerous and expensive territory, and could become a mini-hobby in itself.

So, do you have to try to completely cover all the bases now at your current $ limit ('cause you probably won't be able to)? If not, you can concentrate on one set of conditions for now. Get a model that is completely satisfactory for that category, even if you have to spend a little extra.

BTW What do you currently use?

Good Luck!

 

[APSmith]

I see now the situation. You're new to the hobby. There are SO many options to choose from. The advice is sometimes conflicting.

It might be about impossible to narrow things down in a short period of time. Consider this option:
Go ahead and get a Yosemite - the ULTIMATE beginner's binocular. It will cost you around $100. You and your wife will be in a whole new world of viewing. It is small for a porro, light, and handles great, plus it's waterproof.

While you're enjoying the use of the Yosemite and becoming more and more of a birder, you can casually learn and test binoculars until you've found THE ONE - it could take a while, especially if you're type "A". (You will be suprised how much you will have to spend to get a significantly better view - your budget will have to increase.)

 

[PCH BIRDER]

I think it would be very hard to beat the Pentax DCF SP's at $350. I have them and love them, after trying a lot of the competition. I would encourage you to give them a try before making your decision. Good luck.

 

[AnotherNightOwl]

it could take a while, especially if you're type "A". (You will be suprised how much you will have to spend to get a significantly better view - your budget will have to increase.)

:brains: What's type "A" ?

 

[Macaoidh]

:brains: What's type "A" ?

Wikipedia says: Type A personality, also known as the Type A Behavior Pattern, is a set of characteristics that includes being impatient, excessively time-conscious, insecure about one's status, highly competitive, hostile and aggressive, and incapable of relaxation.[1] Type A individuals are often highly achieving workaholics who multi-task, drive themselves with deadlines, and are unhappy about the smallest of delays. They have been described as stress junkies.

When I read this, I realized that's not quite what I meant. I hardly consider myself a "stress junkie". I am one who can analyze things to an extreme. It'll take me weeks or longer to pick out a new digital camera, for example. I'll go read hours and hours of reviews and pour over them in a store. I find myself doing the same thing with binoculars. To some extent this is good, it's too easy to let the (usually unknowledgable) store salesman give his advice, and just go with it. Too much analysis gets confusing, frustrating, and usually doesn't end up in a significantly superior decision in the end.

I've also read a lot about the Leupolds, would you recommend the 6x or the new 8x (and why)?

Best,
Christopher

 

[Chris D]

We live in the "Golden Age" of Binoculars, Bird Field Guides, Jet Travel, etc. It's only natural to research things. Another tad bit of advice is to find a store with a great many kinds of bino's and try them all. "A bird in the hand.........." - so to speak. You might be quite amazed at the difference between things, - brightness, clarity. Could add to the experience and interest in birds. A decade or two ago the gap in quality between $100 and $1000 spent was much greater than today. Something for a few hundred smackers might be what you still are using at the kid's weddings ---- when you should be paying attention to the ceremony. Find a bunch and try them all..

 

[Robert / Seattle]

:brains: What's type "A" ?

Reference is to Type A personality:


http://www.answers.com/topic/type-a-personality

 

[AnotherNightOwl]

Reference is to Type A personality:


http://www.answers.com/topic/type-a-personality

Thank you.

Did not know there was such a thing.

 

[Robert / Seattle]

Thank you.

Did not know there was such a thing.

A North American idiom, perhaps. Probably just goes by another name in England.

Take care.

 

[APSmith]

I had just looked up the Wikipedia definition myself. I had thought type "A" was more like what you described, meaning that you might tend to over-analyze (as I'm often accused of). Interesting.
Oh well.

Leupolds:
For all purpose birdwatching, I suggest the 8x (Yosemite). A 6x might make details noticeably harder to pick up.

The main weakness of the 8x Katmai is the smallish FOV of 335' (compared with a very respectable 393' of the Yosemite). Keep in mind that these linear FOVs result in about a 38% area difference, which will be significant when watching multiple birds, or searching/following in the trees. Having said that, the Katmai is still a decent option if compactness is a priority, even at it's higher price. (But, I don't really think you'd have a big problem with the Yosemite size - it is very small for a porro.)

 

[Atomic Chicken]

Greetings!

My experience with your question "Can you do it all with one pair of binos?" is this:

The answer is YES - if the pair you choose are $500+ binoculars in 8x32 configuration.

Best wishes,
Bawko

 

[Robert / Seattle]

(Quote) ...Leupolds:
For all purpose birdwatching, I suggest the 8x (Yosemite). A 6x might make details noticeably harder to pick up.

The main weakness of the 8x Katmai is the smallish FOV of 335' (compared with a very respectable 393' of the Yosemite). Keep in mind that these linear FOVs result in about a 38% area difference, which will be significant when watching multiple birds, or searching/following in the trees. Having said that, the Katmai is still a decent option if compactness is a priority, even at it's higher price. (But, I don't really think you'd have a big problem with the Yosemite size - it is very small for a porro.) (Quote)



Good points, AP. But another potentially decisive feature bewtween these two fine choices is the minimum focus distance: 16.4 feet fot the Yosemite but only 4.9 feet for the Katmai. Could be a meaningful consideration, along with size, for our buyer.

 

[Wuchak]

I see now the situation. You're new to the hobby. There are SO many options to choose from. The advice is sometimes conflicting.

It might be about impossible to narrow things down in a short period of time. Consider this option:
Go ahead and get a Yosemite - the ULTIMATE beginner's binocular. It will cost you around $100. You and your wife will be in a whole new world of viewing. It is small for a porro, light, and handles great, plus it's waterproof.

While you're enjoying the use of the Yosemite and becoming more and more of a birder, you can casually learn and test binoculars until you've found THE ONE - it could take a while, especially if you're type "A". (You will be suprised how much you will have to spend to get a significantly better view - your budget will have to increase.)

I second the vote for the Yosemite 8x30. The best price I could find was $109 shipped from Eagle Optics. The price includes free return shipping if you decide to send them back within 30 days. I have Nikon Mountaineer 8x25's and the Yosemites, with that extra 5mm of objective lens, are so much brighter it shocked me. The 8x30 Yosemites are so close in size and weight to the 8x25 Nikons and provide a FOV that is so much larger, brighter, and clearer that I cannot think of many places where I would choose to take the Nikons over the them.

 

[Macaoidh]

Well, an update: Through much reading of many, many messages, and y'alls input here, I ended up opting for.... the Leupold Yosemite 8x30. I think the size will be acceptable, at the very least, for a "home" binocular, and likely for traveling. If it proves to be too large for that, I certainly haven't burned a lot of money, and can consider a purpose built for that. This, though, should really get us going with a great bargain binocular that should deliver a great picture, and will easily fit both of us.

Of note: The Katmai 8x32. I looked at two at two different stores. One was slightly out of collumation, and the other wasn't as sharp to my eyes as the 8x42 and 10x42 monarchs, and suffered more CA. Both, to me, were not up to the Minox BL 8x42s which had a very natural, clear view, with only very slight CA. It was very close between those and the monarch 8x42s, but I think the edge clarity was a touch better, and my eyes felt more relaxed with the Minoxs.

I saw the excursion 8x28s, wasn't really impressed. The prostaff 8x25s were not as bright, but sharper, and the excursion 8x28s paled next to any of the 8x32s I've seen (mind you at half the price). They didn't have the excursion 8x32s at any store I went to, so no real comparison there.

No store here has the Yosemite's, but I've read nothing but positive comments, so I'm going on the input from folks here. I may not be able to use them with glasses (with 14-15mm of eye relief), but I'm finding even with a bino with good eye relief, I prefer taking them off to view anyhow.

Thanks again, and I'll give you an update when I get them!

Best,
Christopher

 

[APSmith]

Christopher,

Good luck with your new bins when they arrive! I think you made a great choice, and a fairly low risk one. Also, keep in mind, if they don't work for you, send 'em back.

And thanks for the Katmai information. I haven't made a purchase yet. This will sound like a wierd set of options, but (for a second pair to complement my EII 8x30), I'm looking at the Katmai 6x32, Fuji CD 7x42, Minox HG 8x33, and can't rule out the ELs. I've looked at/tried a BUNCH of different models, with some close calls, but still not there. Supposedly, there are some interesting new models due out later in '07 - I may wait and see - but I'd really like to be set up for the Spring already.

Happy birding!

 

[Macaoidh]

This will sound like a wierd set of options, but (for a second pair to complement my EII 8x30), I'm looking at the Katmai 6x32, Fuji CD 7x42, Minox HG 8x33, and can't rule out the ELs.

Don't rule out the Katmai's just on what I said. From everything I've read on a few different reviews, the 6x32 seemed to impress where the 8x32 (which is what I was looking at), did not. I think the main reference for that was the cornell ornithology lab review. That may have also been before they phase coated the 8x32s as well (which I believe they do now).

Good luck! I haven't seen any of your other options in person.

Best,
Christopher

 

[Macaoidh]

Alright. I just received my 8x30 Yosemite's by UPS (they dropped them off at 10pm!). Obviously I'll have to wait until tomorrow to get to check out our backyard birds, but here are my first impressions, good, and bad.

Good: The size is fine. It's at the top of the size range I was looking for, but very small for a porro, fits into my large hands, and is quite light and well balanced. From looking across the rooms in our house, picking out details on our wall clocks, etc., the optics look nice and sharp, perhaps slightly better than the roofs I was looking at, with just a bit of fallout in detail along the outer edges. The view is nice and bright as well, but that will be seen better tomorrow. The strap that comes with it is nice, and the binoculars themselves are very handsome (I opted for the natural color).

The bad, which may very well be dealbreakers: There is a lot of flare. If I'm looking at an object, and there's a light or the TV within 20 or 30 degrees or so of the binoc (but not within the picture being looked at), there is a LOT of flare and ghosting across the image. I remember looking through many different roofs, including the Nikons, Minox, Eagle Optics, and I don't recall this being an issue with a bright window and looking at another object nearby. We'll see how they work in more "real world" settings. The other thing is the focus wheel. It has "slop". There is nearly 1/4" of movement when going from near to far and back when changing directions, where the focus wheel moves, but there's no change in focus. That combined with the focus wheel being significantly harder to turn to the counterclockwise vs clockwise, makes focusing not as pleasant as nearly every roof in the $300 price range. Mind you, these are 1/3 the price. Also, for some reason with these binos as well I seem to have trouble getting a "seamless" image, where both barrels overlap without a noticeable "line" from the opposing side. I wonder if that has anything to do with a smaller exit pupil than the others I had been looking at..?

We'll see, but these may very well be going back. Perhaps I'm being too picky for a $100 pair of binoculars, but with the way folks raved about them (and another buyer who when I asked pre-purchase if his had any focus "slop", the reply was no) I had high hopes and expectations. I have no qualms at this point with the optical clarity, but the focus wheel at is driving me nuts. My best bet is probably to use them a bit outdoors, and take them to a shop with me to compare directly against my top contenders in the roof arena, which I think right now are the EO 8x32 sxt and Minox 8x42 bl.

Best,
Christopher

 

[Tero]

The bad, which may very well be dealbreakers: There is a lot of flare. If I'm looking at an object, and there's a light or the TV within 20 or 30 degrees or so of the binoc (but not within the picture being looked at), there is a LOT of flare and ghosting across the image.

Sometimes that is coming from behind, so if you can adjust the eye cups at all, it might help. I have seen that problem in expensive bins as well.

 

[Babzz]

I agree with Dave Smith (and others?): a good pair for everywhere. Especially when I'm travelling, I want the best bins I can get b/c I'm most likely to see birds I've never seen before and perhaps the ONLY time I'll ever see them. I've kicked myself so many times on my travels for not having bought a better pair of bins beforehand. Though there are the weight/size and price (expensive stuff in poor countries=theft potential) considerations.