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Canon 7D Mk II is announced and available for pre-order (1 Viewer)

Roy C

Occasional bird snapper
Tell me how Roy !
Use Av mode for the aperture you want and then go into the 'ISO speed settings' menu and set the minimum shutter speed you require. You can also do this on the 5D3 but the range of shutter speeds available are a lot less than on the 7D2. I do not know about the 1Dx.
Using this method you can use whatever metering mode you want and also use Ev comp as per normal.
 

Dave Williams

Well-known member
Use Av mode for the aperture you want and then go into the 'ISO speed settings' menu and set the minimum shutter speed you require. You can also do this on the 5D3 but the range of shutter speeds available are a lot less than on the 7D2. I do not know about the 1Dx.
Using this method you can use whatever metering mode you want and also use Ev comp as per normal.

Ok, got that but if for example a bird is sat still you really only need a very low shutter speed but it suddenly shakes out it's feathers and you need a much higher one. In manual mode it's a case of rolling the dial to increase the shutter speed instantly. The aperture needed remains the same, auto iso will increase the iso and as I have added EV to suit that scene. All is well.

In your scenario, the bird moves and the result is a blur unless you have set a much higher speed than needed for a stationary subject which in turn will have unnecessarily increased the ISO. That said, if the ISO setting is good enough to have for movement it's good enough ( i.e. little noise)for static subjects I guess.

Each to our own though, it's what suits us that matters but it's important to appreciate the alternatives that are available. I think most of us never get to use the full range of the camera's capabilities because we never bother to find out exactly what it is capable of.
 

Roy C

Occasional bird snapper
Ok, got that but if for example a bird is sat still you really only need a very low shutter speed but it suddenly shakes out it's feathers and you need a much higher one. In manual mode it's a case of rolling the dial to increase the shutter speed instantly. The aperture needed remains the same, auto iso will increase the iso and as I have added EV to suit that scene. All is well.
For a start the pics I posted were not birds in case you did not notice ;).
I am not sure why you even bothered asking about the settings I use Dave if you are so set in your own ways . I guess you think the macros I posted in this thread are soft and/or incorrectly exposed which is fair enough but why not just come out and say that instead of just criticising my methods.
BTW I do know all the pros and cons to shooting in manual mode having used it exclusively for birds for several years - if only it was all so easy as you make out :-O
 

Dave Williams

Well-known member
Gosh, thats a grumpy reply to a genuine enquiry of my interest Roy. Must have caught you on one of your bad days eh! As I stated earlier I'm open to looking at new methods but the one you just explained doesn't seem to offer any benefits but that is only in my opinion. Isn't that what a forum is supposed to be about ? Learning.
As for your shots, what on earth makes you think I have a negative opinion, I actually said they were nice shots. Of course if you think differently, and it seems you might do, then that's fair enough too.
Have a nice day, cheers, Dave
 

Roger P

Well-known member
Wow, what a shame that ended like that! It came out of the blue to me, never saw that coming. It's difficult not to take posts personally I suppose but as an outsider, and this was not a closed conversation, I learnt a lot by hearing two points of view. Surely that's what the forum is about?
Without doubt the original pictures are most impressive.
 

Dave Williams

Well-known member
I have the greatest respect for Roy's contributions to the forum. As someone who is keen to learn I try to glean what I can from everyone's experiences. Possibly Roy misinterpreted my intentions. Anyway, no offence was intended on my part and none taken.
I don't have a 7D2 although for a brief period I did have one but decided that it didn't add anything I hadn't already got with my 1DX and 5D3. There are not too many contributions about the 1DX on the forum so I read the 7D2 entries with interest as both bodies have similar functions, the one thing both have in common is the ability to apply EV in manual mode when using auto-iso. To my finding this is a major breakthrough.
I find auto -iso doesn't give me the correct exposure when simply used on it's own but with manual adjustment with EV applied it works very well indeed. However, perhaps if I used spot metering as suggested by Roy, the auto-iso performance might be more to my liking. I will try it out and see. Again, someone whose opinion I respected told me not to use spot metering so I have stuck with evaluative without straying.
It is too easy to fall in to a comfort zone without realising that you might be missing a trick!
 

hampers

Hampers
I have the greatest respect for Roy's contributions to the forum. As someone who is keen to learn I try to glean what I can from everyone's experiences. Possibly Roy misinterpreted my intentions. Anyway, no offence was intended on my part and none taken.
I don't have a 7D2 although for a brief period I did have one but decided that it didn't add anything I hadn't already got with my 1DX and 5D3. There are not too many contributions about the 1DX on the forum so I read the 7D2 entries with interest as both bodies have similar functions, the one thing both have in common is the ability to apply EV in manual mode when using auto-iso. To my finding this is a major breakthrough.
I find auto -iso doesn't give me the correct exposure when simply used on it's own but with manual adjustment with EV applied it works very well indeed. However, perhaps if I used spot metering as suggested by Roy, the auto-iso performance might be more to my liking. I will try it out and see. Again, someone whose opinion I respected told me not to use spot metering so I have stuck with evaluative without straying.
It is too easy to fall in to a comfort zone without realising that you might be missing a trick!

Not trying to ask a daft question but how are the various exposure mode calculations made. I can't get my head round it all.
Like Dave I use Evaluative more or less all the time and am wondering, after what Roy said, if I am doing it wrong. I do get varying results.

Phil

Thanks, Phil
 

tdodd

Just call me Tim
Spot, partial and centre weighted metering are essentially similar to each other, except the area of the frame which is metered is progressively larger. Basically each of these patterns will aim to record the metered part of the scene as a neutral tone (middle grey in black and white) unless you adjust the camera to do otherwise. If you aim the meter area at a generally pale target the camera will underexpose unless you dial in positive EC or, in manual mode, have the meter needle somewhere in the positive side of 0. If you aim the metered area at a dark subject/scene then the camera will try to brighten it to "middle grey" unless you dial in negative EC or, in manual, have the meter needle negative of zero. The behaviour of the camera is predictable and knowing how much +/-EC to dial in is a matter of experience and artistic or technical intent.

With evaluative metering things get way more complicated. Different cameras respond in different ways, but fundamentally the camera evaluates the entire scene and references a database to "guess" at the type of scenario you have. It biases the exposure depending on the active focus point, assumed to be on your subject, and possibly neighbouring focus points if they fall on equivalent tones (at a similar subject distance?). Often the outcome is quite decent, but it is hard for the photographer to predict how the camera will handle each scene and hard to know in advance how much EC might be needed.

I tend to use evaluative metering and hope for the best when shooting in Av and Tv modes, but for manual exposure, which I use most of the time, I use spot metering almost exclusively. I choose the area from which to meter very carefully and make a judgement about how bright it ought to be and set my exposure to place the meter needle where I think it should be. I may meter from something not even within the scene at all, such as my own palm, because I know how bright that should be. I also will often meter from the brightest important tones within the scene and set the meter in manual to +3, thus placing the brightest tones just short of clipping point in raw. This is classic ETTR technique. It puts me in charge of the exposure and not the camera and gives me the best raw file to work with in terms of the data contained within the file. It might not look right SOOC, but it will be the best starting point for raw conversion.
 

hampers

Hampers
Spot, partial and centre weighted metering are essentially similar to each other, except the area of the frame which is metered is progressively larger. Basically each of these patterns will aim to record the metered part of the scene as a neutral tone (middle grey in black and white) unless you adjust the camera to do otherwise. If you aim the meter area at a generally pale target the camera will underexpose unless you dial in positive EC or, in manual mode, have the meter needle somewhere in the positive side of 0. If you aim the metered area at a dark subject/scene then the camera will try to brighten it to "middle grey" unless you dial in negative EC or, in manual, have the meter needle negative of zero. The behaviour of the camera is predictable and knowing how much +/-EC to dial in is a matter of experience and artistic or technical intent.

With evaluative metering things get way more complicated. Different cameras respond in different ways, but fundamentally the camera evaluates the entire scene and references a database to "guess" at the type of scenario you have. It biases the exposure depending on the active focus point, assumed to be on your subject, and possibly neighbouring focus points if they fall on equivalent tones (at a similar subject distance?). Often the outcome is quite decent, but it is hard for the photographer to predict how the camera will handle each scene and hard to know in advance how much EC might be needed.

I tend to use evaluative metering and hope for the best when shooting in Av and Tv modes, but for manual exposure, which I use most of the time, I use spot metering almost exclusively. I choose the area from which to meter very carefully and make a judgement about how bright it ought to be and set my exposure to place the meter needle where I think it should be. I may meter from something not even within the scene at all, such as my own palm, because I know how bright that should be. I also will often meter from the brightest important tones within the scene and set the meter in manual to +3, thus placing the brightest tones just short of clipping point in raw. This is classic ETTR technique. It puts me in charge of the exposure and not the camera and gives me the best raw file to work with in terms of the data contained within the file. It might not look right SOOC, but it will be the best starting point for raw conversion.

Thank you, makes it much clearer. I can see where Roy is coming from with Centre Point with Auto ISO now. Think I will give it a go and see if my images are better exposed. Now a major issue at moment but some come out unexpectedly exposed.

Thanks very much and to Roy.

Phil
 

dabut101

Well-known member
Had a shock today as took camera and lens to lehmans to have them calibrated together and camera has a resolution problem and needs a new sensor.
 

Owen Krout

Registered User
Supporter
I have a 70D and a 300 f2.8 mk11, would I notice any advantage in grading up to a 7D MK11?

Geoff,

I had a look at your examples and if this is typical of what you are now getting I personally would look at spending the money elsewhere if I were you. Perhaps looking at a 100-400mm zoom and or 1.4 extender so you could catch some longer shots that you might be missing now. I recently upgraded all the way from a Rebel XT (EOS 350D) with 85-250mm to a 7D MKII and 100-400mm w/1.4 extender and I consider it well worth the investment but that is a lot bigger improvement than you would see from a 70D.

Of course we usually don't buy a new car because we need it but rather because we just really would like to have the latest greatest thing. That is to say, is it worth it to you?
 

hampers

Hampers
I have a 70D and a 300 f2.8 mk11, would I notice any advantage in grading up to a 7D MK11?

Looking at your Flikr you are getting really good images. Would a 7D2 improve them, I doubt. But what you would get is better ISO flexibility which we certainly need here in the UK for a great deal of the year. I'm happy with the higher end ISON performance on mine and I know that I managed to get images of the Sabine's at Pennington in very inclement weather at high ISO that I'd not have managed before. That's one example and as we move into Autumn/Winter I will get more use than I could previously achieved on the dark(er) days. Hope that helps.

Phil
 

tdodd

Just call me Tim
Geoff, it's obvious to see that you are getting great images already, but one question only you can answer is - what's your keeper rate, especially for BIF? Maybe a 7D2 would deliver more keepers, either through higher frame rate or improved AF. In terms of actual IQ you seem to be doing just fine already.
 

hosesbroadbill

Well-known member
I've been absent from this site for quite some time and just caught up on some of what was written. I went from the 70D to the 7d2. Image quality is much better on the 7d2. The autofocus blows the doors off of the 70d as well. And the ability to customize the buttons to do exactly what you want them to do is just invaluable. I think that the image quality that you are getting will improve quite a bit with the new camera. I know mine did.
 

Malcolm Stewart

Well-known member
My mint, and boxed, used copy of an Eos 7D Mark II arrived about 10 days ago from LCE. (Excellent service as usual.)

It's very early days for me, despite using Canon DSLRs for many years, and I'll content myself by saying that it's rather different to my 7D - which frequently faltered when focusing even on what I thought were simple subjects. The Mark II doesn't appear to have this problem, and I suspect that my 1D Mark IV is going to feel a little under-used.
 

senatore

Well-known member
Did some micro adjusting the other day.

Didn't need to change it much but wondered if the new adjustment applies automatically to the settings I've got registered in C1 C2 and C3 or do I need to re-register ?

Max
 

mdb2

Well-known member
Hi all, I am well pleased with my upgrade from 7D to the mk2. Just one question please. I have tried to get the centre point expansion. IE the centre spot with the four other points to confirm focus IE turn green. On my viewfinder the focus seems to disappear ? I am probably doing something obviously wrong? I am using case 2.
Kind regards mike
 
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