Collared Doves UK and Fuerteventura (1 Viewer)

[KenM]

As an aside, my first garden Collared Dove for perhaps 5 years several days ago, contrasting somewhat with this bird on FTV 3 weeks ago which in itself was markedly darker than the rest of it’s congeners.
Wondering whether it’s genetic or dietary?
Fair to say it was the dominant bird in the cafe.

Cheers

 

[Butty]

More photos taken of low-grade images on a small screen. Can you please take note of, and act respectfully towards, all the many people who object to you doing this - and stop doing it? Thanks.
Post in thread 'Epping Forest-female Great Spotted Woodpecker with a seemingly red forehead?' Epping Forest-female Great Spotted Woodpecker with a seemingly red forehead?

 

[KenM]

More photos taken of low-grade images on a small screen. Can you please take note of, and act respectfully towards, all the many people who object to you doing this - and stop doing it? Thanks.
Post in thread 'Epping Forest-female Great Spotted Woodpecker with a seemingly red forehead?' Epping Forest-female Great Spotted Woodpecker with a seemingly red forehead?

The difference is for all to see!….might I suggest that you climb down off your not inconsiderable pompous butt and occasionally put “some meat on the table” for a change.👍

 

[Butty]

Could you avoid personal insults in this forum, please? Thanks.
Please see your woodpecker thread (link given above) for examples of a) the number of people who dislike you repeatedly posting back-of-camera photos when there's no need for it, and b) the way that colours can be substantially different in original photos and thus can substantially affect people's ability to help you with your problem. Thanks.
Could you post the original photos? Thanks.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello Ken,

first and most important here: you know asking for the originals isnt meant as an offence, but as a deep interest in ID. I am sure, this words could have been written by Butty, too.

The post Butty has linked shows differences in the colouration/hues that are also important here:

I must admit, I would have stayed on fence when you (or someone else) has asked for the ID of this dove:

Again first and important: you know I trust you and all others who actually saw the bird more than pictures

• I cant remember have seen a Collared Dove with such an deepn rusty-brownish colouration before
• same with the bold eye-ring
• same with the broad, bar-like black neck patch (although this can appear thicker on an outstretched neck like in your bird, but not so marked like in your bird)
• same with the scalloped fringing on the back (slight pattern rarely present in Collared Dove)
• same with the deep red ("lackrot") feet
• although I have seen very few doves with an abnormal bill before,the long bill seems unusual for me

Conclusion?
first and most important here: you know asking for originals isnt meant as an offence, but as a deep interest in ID.
You know I really would like to see the originals and hope for more comments. I struggle to ID your dove as an Collared Dove with confidence and again: you know I trust you and all others who actually saw the bird more than pictures

And: interesting bird. Tfs!

 

[THE_FERN]

We can ask Ken to post originals until we're blue in the face. We can even suggest how he might do this. No point. Ken's clearly immune to all entreaties and prefers faulty ids based on poor images...

In this case, the "important" thing is to rule out african collared dove. We can do this easily as that should be paler rather than darker than "normal" collared. Eurasian are in any case quite variable:

ML21934901 Eurasian Collared-Dove Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML21934901; © Ryan Schain; Monroe, Florida, United States

macaulaylibrary.org

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,

looking at the pictures again, a word came into my mind. Is an hybrid a possibility here? I hope for Jörn and others to jump in.

I found this: African Bird Club

But it still can be an abnormal coloured bird, the seemlingy worn wing-coverts and the different coloured primaries (indication of something - disease or diet related issue - ???) might support this.

And I am sure Ken will post the originals when he find the time. Thanks!

 

[Earnest lad]

I have also seen Collared doves on the Canary Islands when I went there for a vacation 12 years ago. I saw some of paler than average too. (Mixed in with 'normal' Collared doves). One suspects there is, within the Collared Dove population in this part of the world, an admixture of genes from (a) wild birds and (b) birds of domesticated origin and their descendents, which became in time "feral" I think African Collared Doves (Barbary Doves when domesticated) and other similar species eg Cape Turtle Doves etc are or have been commonly kept by aviculturalists.

 

[KenM]

Hello,

looking at the pictures again, a word came into my mind. Is an hybrid a possibility here? I hope for Jörn and others to jump in.

I found this: African Bird Club

But it still can be an abnormal coloured bird, the seemlingy worn wing-coverts and the different coloured primaries (indication of something - disease or diet related issue - ???) might support this.

And I am sure Ken will post the originals when he find the time. Thanks!

A “staggering” image from the ABC Alexander😮👍 TFS!

After looking at the image that Fern supplied, I noted that (taken) in Florida on the same latitude as the Canaries (FTV), there might be a tendency for Collared Dove to morph into a “warmer” cosmetic as they range South?

My garden bird was very “cold” by comparison perhaps more research might “shed some light” on this?

Regarding….“when he finds the time”.
I did spend some time looking for the original jpgs. but could not find them, because my software is old and the system is “overloaded” with images, to the point where the “individual images” are not shown on the software.

Instead all images shown are “the same” and to compound it, the numbered sequencing (as seen in camera) is totally different to the numbers shown on the software screen.
Thus it’s almost impossible to find individual images other than going through c500 images one by one!

When at day end, the “difference” in quality is so negligible, as to not warrant the effort required for said task.

Cheers

 

[Andy Adcock]

A “staggering” image from the ABC Alexander😮👍 TFS!

After looking at the image that Fern supplied, I noted that (taken) in Florida on the same latitude as the Canaries (FTV), there might be a tendency for Collared Dove to morph into a “warmer” cosmetic as they range South?



Cheers

Are you referring to Gloger's rule?

I think there are environmental factors at play here.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

...taking a bath in dirty , muddy water , can make a collared dove much darker than others, also soot can do the same ... and both can give the bird a fairly uniform darker coloration as I know from own experiences. Such staining can be stronger on the breast as in your Canary islands bird , Ken.

as said by others , there is nothing in the photos suggesting this is another species than Streptopelia decaocto, a distinct color morph or a hybrid ...

 

[KenM]

...taking a bath in dirty , muddy water , can make a collared dove much darker than others, also soot can do the same ... and both can give the bird a fairly uniform darker coloration as I know from own experiences. Such staining can be stronger on the breast as in your Canary islands bird , Ken.

as said by others , there is nothing in the photos suggesting this is another species than Streptopelia decaocto, a distinct color morph or a hybrid ...

This may well be the “same” bird that I encountered at the same cafe Xmas ‘21 Joern some 15 months previous, just wish I’d imaged the regular Collared Doves, which were paler than the subject bird, but perhaps warmer than the garden bird?

Cheers

 

[Phil Andrews]

Are you referring to Gloger's rule?

I think there are environmental factors at play here.

Isn't that basing ID assumptions on limited / out-of-context internet research?

Or is that Googler's Rule?

 

[Andy Adcock]

Isn't that basing ID assumptions on limited / out-of-context internet research?

Or is that Googler's Rule?

• Gloger's rule is an ecogeographical rule that links animal colouration with climatic variation. This rule is named after C.W.L. Gloger who was one of the first to summarise the associations between climatic variation and animal colouration, noting in particular that birds and mammals seemed more pigmented in tropical regions.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,
thanks for commenting Jörn!

I must admit, I was quite confident, that when the original pictures confirmed the unusual points, this bird is an hybrid.

But surely time to look at Collared Doves again, although I thought I have seen enough to judge variation (at least in Germany). Thanks again Jörn!

And: thanks for explaining the background, Ken. I can accept that, although the original would be nice you know.

"Frohe Ostern!"

 

[Phil Andrews]

• Gloger's rule is an ecogeographical rule that links animal colouration with climatic variation. This rule is named after C.W.L. Gloger who was one of the first to summarise the associations between climatic variation and animal colouration, noting in particular that birds and mammals seemed more pigmented in tropical regions.

Thanks Andy - every day is a school day

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

This may well be the “same” bird that I encountered at the same cafe Xmas ‘21 Joern some 15 months previous, just wish I’d imaged the regular Collared Doves, which were paler than the subject bird, but perhaps warmer than the garden bird?

Cheers

It´s been using the same bathroom since then ...

 

[KenM]

It´s been using the same bathroom since then ...

Without much luck…by the look of it.😊

 

[KenM]

Alexander hi,

eventually found the jpg images, I’ve lightened them slightly, as they were shot under a “shadowed” thatched parasol.
Yes more resolution, but imo doesn’t alter the “differential” in as much as making the BOC images looking not fit for purpose!

“Frohe Ostern”👍

 

[Butty]

When at day end, the “difference” in quality is so negligible, as to not warrant the effort required for said task

Although, "at day end" when the "attention potential" has been fully milked, and yet more attention is required... it suddenly does "warrant the effort" after all 🙄
Thank you for ("finally") providing the original photos. Now we see that the bird is less saturated reddish than in the "photos originally posted" (this is not just due to increasing the brightness). Given that it's evidently so tame, escape from captivity is on the cards - which could be reason enough for, well, "anything".