Corona virus threat to birding (7 Viewers)

[Paul Chapman]

I think (probably understandably in retrospect) you took my post to be critical of you or the content of your post - it certainly wasn’t :gh: so apologies if thats how it came across to you. It was a badly veiled calling out of someone but not of you. Yes, totally agree on your point above, although it wasn’t me that has made any complaints, either on this thread, or any other about the subject matter people post not being ‘appropriate’ for any reason - I actually don’t care! I’m not a Mod, have no pretensions of being one, nor any aspirations to become one :t:

Anyway, glad to see people are still managing to get some birding in despite the challenges. I’m trying to avoid my local reserve out of respect for the staffers remaining on site to warden the place and taking my chance of not meeting people by doing some forest birding instead.

Honestly. No problem. Far bigger things out there at the moment. I'm trying to use this as a lesson to avoid calling anyone out at the moment. Almost no one is all bad & almost everyone slips from the highest standards of behaviour. I know I have done far too frequently so far & will do again in the future. I am looking forward to the tides being early enough in the morning to minimise any contact when I go out. Today, I simply drove the bridges over the drainage channel near my home. Nothing of note but I'll add some pics of previous highlights. A horse rider did say hello to me through the open car window.

Edit - that was worthwhile to remind me that persistence does work & maybe one in several hundred attempts the bridges over the drainage channel do turn up some sightings - all from the car save I did get out for the first & third - Great White Egret; Barnacle Goose; Jack Snipe; Garganey; & Otter.

All the best

Paul

 

[Ries]

I normally travel by train (and folding bike) in weekends to go birding anywhere in the Netherlands, and last weekend it was delightfully quiet in trains and on stations. So low worries about infection. But now railways have decided to do basic schedules so a normally 2half hour journey takes more than 4 hours now and go every hour instead of half hour...that makes the travel not worthwhile. So as long as we're not in lockdown here, I'll just bike the surroundings, nice enough now migration has started

 

[Richard Prior]

Unless you use hides, I can't see increased risk from being outside birding. Additionally, if you fill up at the same place, it matters not whether you bird your patch or a hundred miles away. Social distancing does not have to mean mouldering indoors.

I agree with your last sentence John, and solitary (or with your partner if in a couple) birding should carry no risk for you or others you should cross ( as long as you keep the safe distance away). The problem for the authorities is of course can they trust people to be sensible? The French experience since confinement started on Monday is that if they can’t - even with the strict rules some people will be selfish.
Example from here yesterday, a little car park at the end of the road below us is a starting point for mountain hikers, yesterday the gendarmes were waiting and enforcing the rule that physical exercise should only be done near your domicile. At first I thought, that’ s a bit over the top, a person yomping up a mountain on their own won’t infect anyone. Then later on as my wife, her sister and I were walking down a forest track, the sister slipped on a pine cone and could have had a nasty fall and it occurred to me, the emergency services are at breaking point and in our selfishness we could have caused them to divert their precious resources to come to our aid ( the helicopter ambulance would’ve been the only way to get to us, as would be the case if any of the ‘harmless’ mountaineers had an accident).
The same logic is applied therefore for car journeys or cycling, there are dangers and the country needs to reduce the number of accidents to keep the health service professionals available to tackle the virus.
I’m sure you’re like me, I’m a sensible sort of chap when driving or walking in the forests or on the mountainside but accidents can happen through no fault of our own, I ‘d hate to be the indirect cause of someone failing to get to intensive care in time because of my ‘stretching the rules’ ( I recognize that the UK is not the stage we are in France but hopefully you get my gist). Apologies for being so long-winded:eek!:

 

[3Italianbirders]

The problem for the authorities is of course can they trust people to be sensible? The French experience since confinement started on Monday is that if they can’t - even with the strict rules some people will be selfish.

That's exactly the problem: social distancing on a voluntary basis doesn't work, because we are human and my standard of being careful will always be different from somebody else's. Or more simply as you say, some people just don't care/think/realise how dangerous their behaviour can be for those who are more vulnerable.

The same logic is applied therefore for car journeys or cycling, there are dangers and the country needs to reduce the number of accidents to keep the health service professionals available to tackle the virus.

Cycling is discouraged here for the same reason, but still allowed.

 

[MalR]

For me, the worst thing about this crisis is the level of inconsistency about advice we are receiving and the fact that certain organisations are allowed to determine things for themselves.

For example, yesterday I received an email from the Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust to say that my local reserve would be open, as would the visitor centre and cafe, although in the latter, the distance between the tables would be increased, to reduce the risk of people infecting others with the virus.

Later on the same day, the RSPB sent me an email to say that while my local reserve would remain open, the visitor centre, shop and cafe would be closed, to reduce the risk of visitors infecting others.

So, I can go to one bird reserve and enjoy a meal or a cup of tea, but just a few miles down the road, I can't. This is crazy. Surely it has to be one or the other.

For what it's worth, I agree with the RSPB's position. I mean, how can the WWT say visitors can still go to their cafes when the Prime Minister is telling people to avoid pubs/cafes etc?

For me, this sort of laissez-faire approach undermines the pronouncements about the catastrophe we are facing.

Malcolm

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

Here in Pennsylvania, the governor just announced a major shutdown of the state. Basically all retail except "essential" services. Some types of manufacturing also shut down. There's a 5 page spreadsheet of what is essential or not.

Of course, it doesn't mention outdoor recreational areas.

 

[John Cantelo]

I'm currently one of those moldering at home for the past week as I have had a very mild chest infection (if it's C-19 then I'm very, very lucky) so I'm self-isolating (even if I've not reached the official tipping point of 70 at 69½ I can't take risks). Happily, I have sufficient provisions to last to the weekend and beyond. However, at some point, I will need to visit the supermarket to get food (assuming there's any left after the panic buyers have done their worst). I can't help feeling that spending even a relatively short time in an enclosed space and unavoidably closer to many others that seems prudent will be far riskier than going for a longer walk in the open air with binoculars (or a dog come to that), in places without many or any people and avoiding contact if anyone comes along. Of course, I may have some sort of accident & put a strain on health services ..... just as I might being couped up at home.

With regard to what measures can be taken, I think ramping up testing to a way higher level is vital. If, as I've heard suggested in the radio tests will also tell you if you've had it, then that would allow such people to become economically active sooner, re-engage with society (including birding) and support others (the balance of medical opinion suggests there's no or a vanishingly small chance of getting it twice). It's not easy to decide where in the spectrum between utter panic and smug overconfidence you should stand but I do think being able to spend some time in green spaces (whilst avoiding others) could help. In the meantime sharing information here, without bickering, helps to inform and should encourage careful reflection.

 

[dantheman]

I'm currently one of those moldering at home for the past week as I have had a very mild chest infection (if it's C-19 then I'm very, very lucky) so I'm self-isolating (even if I've not reached the official tipping point of 70 at 69½ I can't take risks). Happily, I have sufficient provisions to last to the weekend and beyond. However, at some point, I will need to visit the supermarket to get food (assuming there's any left after the panic buyers have done their worst). I can't help feeling that spending even a relatively short time in an enclosed space and unavoidably closer to many others that seems prudent will be far riskier than going for a longer walk in the open air with binoculars (or a dog come to that), in places without many or any people and avoiding contact if anyone comes along. Of course, I may have some sort of accident & put a strain on health services ..... just as I might being couped up at home.

With regard to what measures can be taken, I think ramping up testing to a way higher level is vital. If, as I've heard suggested in the radio tests will also tell you if you've had it, then that would allow such people to become economically active sooner, re-engage with society (including birding) and support others (the balance of medical opinion suggests there's no or a vanishingly small chance of getting it twice). It's not easy to decide where in the spectrum between utter panic and smug overconfidence you should stand but I do think being able to spend some time in green spaces (whilst avoiding others) could help. In the meantime sharing information here, without bickering, helps to inform and should encourage careful reflection.

Can you not get someone to get some shopping for you? A younger friend, neighbour or relative when they do theirs? And drop it off on your doorstep etc Without stringent measures in place it is a risk, agreed. Countries with lockdown have strict measures when shopping which decreases risks it would seem. Otherwise I guess it's just a numbers game (low numbers but increasing all the time, without trying to worry overly).

Keep well anyway - if it is C, and you don't get any worse, then maybe you'll then be fine thereafter. And lucky indeed. Don't know how it works - can you ask for a coronavirus test from the NHS once you've recovered enough to go out yet?


(As an aside I just read that Argentina are to go into full lockdown as of tonight. That is with 128 recorded cases in the country, or 3 per million of population (the UK currently has 48 cases per million, although that is considered an undercount). No free movement on the streets, with prison terms for those in violation. I guess they are trying to hit it hard and eliminate it before it is too late.)

 

[Nutcracker]

With regard to what measures can be taken, I think ramping up testing to a way higher level is vital.

Absolutely. Yet, at the moment, the Govt. are making it near-impossible for anyone - even health care workers - to get a test, unless they are very seriously ill. This example seems fairly typical, from what I've seen:

https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1240776914693951496

(the UK currently has 48 cases per million, although that is considered an undercount).

Given the above, a massive undercount.

In China, after testing became widespread, they concluded that 86% of cases had previously not been diagnosed.

They estimated that, prior to the lockdown of Wuhan on Jan. 23, about 86% of all COVID-19 infections in China were undetected. In other words, for every confirmed case of COVID-19, there were six undetected cases

Source: https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-undiagnosed-spread.html

 

[RafaelMatias]

Before the link was added I was thinking of another thread that was actually closed. The other is still up and running.

Portugal is fine although have confined ourselves today.

That said saw almost the same a Rafael
Spotless starling
Lesser black backed and herring gulls
Ring necked parakeets
Greenfinch
House sparrow
Serin
Black redstart
Sardinian warbler
Blackcap
Mallard
Blackbird
Pigeon

Ah, forgot to add Pigeon on my list above o
I saw your ebird list, and was expecting a longer list of species! It was tick and go!

From ebird alerts for the country (Portugal) I get that birders are just checking places mostly near their areas of residence, knowing the birders involved. It seems there will be a gap in bird data gathering for a period (of which we still can't see the end of) for Portugal and probably a large part of the world. Only in the end we'll know how wide will this scary gap be.

Re situation in Portugal (mostly for rosbifs), it is correct, the President declared "state of emergency", but this only gives the Government extended powers within new boundaries to put in place more extreme measures if needed (the President does not have any executive powers). These measures were announced today by the Government and they still don't include a mandatory seclusion, they rather strongly advice people to do so (except for buying food, medication, walking the dog, taking your kids out away from other people and short walks for health reasons (I read mental health reasons should be included, and to prevent other stuff related to sedentarism). All non essential commerce will be shut down. Elderly people still didn't get a different schedule for shopping for food (although this was suggested in an earlier draft of the resolution). So, not much really changes. I guess they're trying not to kill people from "the cure", and doing it more progressively, while learning from all current examples from countries that are ahead of us in the "growth curve". I think the impact over many people not being able to work will be truly devastating even if this lasts for only a couple of months and poverty will be rampant before long. Many people were already on the edge before, never having recovered fully from the consequences of the 2008 recession. Another problem with seclusion is people getting exhausted before this ends.
The potentially good news today was that the apparent transmission rate decreased to 22% (new reported cases; from 35%, after decreasing from 45% two days before). We'll see in the next days if this is the result of people self isolating at home since last thursday or friday (it was very noticeable the sudden lower number of people outside), or if I'm trying to read too much into this right now.
We'll see how it goes.
Stay safe and good luck everyone.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

I'm currently one of those moldering at home for the past week as I have had a very mild chest infection (if it's C-19 then I'm very, very lucky) so I'm self-isolating (even if I've not reached the official tipping point of 70 at 69½ I can't take risks).

Correct me if I am wrong John but isn’t the Gvt advice now; if you experience symptoms of c19 to self-isolate for only 7 days (on the premise that after day 5 of being symptomatic you are no longer shedding virus (infectious to others) - its only if there are others in the house that they then have to self isolate for 14 days (to allow for 2-5 days asymptomatic incubation.)

Of course, if it’s not c19, your immune system will be low due to the cough/cold making you even more vulnerable than normal - I’m sure if you phoned up your local supermarket, they will take an order over the phone and get some stuff delivered to you - I know Sainsbury’s and Iceland do in some areas.

You can then save your energies and stealth missions for some off piste birding!

 

[Deb Burhinus]

...
It seems there will be a gap in bird data gathering for a period (of which we still can't see the end of) for Portugal and probably a large part of the world. Only in the end we'll know how wide will this scary gap be...
Stay safe and good luck everyone.

Yes, the implications keep coming, NRS and BBS for 2020, gaps in Birdtrack, WeBs 2020/21 as well as many other project surveys if UK goes into a stricter lockdown. At the moment, hopefully most surveyors are still getting out but it’s really significant that historical outbreaks of F&M resulted in months of missing data for wetland bird surveys over the years.

BTO

https://www.bto.org/community/news/202003-bto-and-covid-19

 

[rosbifs]

Raphael

I tend to just note the birds that may be of interest. So I rarely note blue tit great tit white wagtail etc and I’m relatively new to ebird so if I see something a 100m away from main site how do I map that or include it? At the ring necked duck site there were grey herons, teal, gadwall, cormorant, fan tailed warbler, buzzard - I didn’t note the former few because I wasn’t sure of the ‘exact’ numbers and the latter two were a little away from the site....

As for here it is heartbreaking seeing the businesses closed and thinking of the longer term effects. As you said Portugal has been on the edge and will struggle to come away unscathed as will a lot of people/economies.

My father went ‘elderly’ shopping to sainsburys in England - 7am-8am. Only to find the store full with everyone. Defeats the object of trying to protect the elderly!
On Tuesday I had a swift species - pallid or common in off guincho beach. I should really have recorded that but didn’t want to commit to species.

 

[SlowLowFlyingTurkey]

On the subject of surveys, if anyone would like to take part in an easy one that can be completed from your kitchen window, you are just in time to sign up for the Living With Mammals survey. It starts on March 30th and runs until the end of June.

https://ptes.org/get-involved/surveys/garden/living-with-mammals/

I've been taking part in it for a few years now on a local common because I don't have a garden.

 

[edenwatcher]

I appear to have a mild case (minimal cough) and mostly only slightly raised temperature. Frustrating at the moment on the best day locally for goshawk surveys this year! Once I have fully recovered I would really like to know if I have had Covid-19 as it will have a significant impact on my behaviour and "usefulness".

Rob

 

[rosbifs]

A friend told me that his brother probably contracted the virus in Italy at the end of January with another. Two of them went to hospital in London (one with chest pains went more than once). Neither were tested despite their symptoms and where they had been...

 

[Andy Adcock]

Just a quick log on to say that 90% of recent posts in this thread, are not bird related and could have gone in the thread I started, however, the vocal campaigners got that moved.

 

[dantheman]

Just a quick log on to say that 90% of recent posts in this thread, are not bird related and could have gone in the thread I started, however, the vocal campaigners got that moved.

I think there is a big difference between the odd birder posting to say that they may have the virus and relevant replies, and turning this into a generalised posting on shopping (for items in short supply).

Probably up to 95% now?

There are 4 or so (relevant) threads in Ruffled Feathers now - I'm sure there will be more. The main theme of this thread will remain birding, I'm sure.

 

[Richard Prior]

Here’ s a concrete example of how it can affect our birding, there’s a male SMEW been found this morning, just over the border near Geneva, pretty rare hereabouts - my wife could twitch it en route to her job in the health sector but I can’t cross the border anymore ( hiding in the car boot to get there is not socially responsible, I don’t know why I let the idea enter my head....):-C

 

[Paul Chapman]

I appear to have a mild case (minimal cough) and mostly only slightly raised temperature. Frustrating at the moment on the best day locally for goshawk surveys this year! Once I have fully recovered I would really like to know if I have had Covid-19 as it will have a significant impact on my behaviour and "usefulness".

Rob

Rob

In that lies the nub of any light at the end of the tunnel - both testing for the disease and testing for the antibodies. The maximum self-isolation before that gives us the most hope.

Many comments on testing in the Q+As at the daily briefings but little concrete progress set out. The tests are being tested before the wallets are opened is how I would interpret the comments (probably inaccurately).

On the birding front, off now to check my local bridges for 15 mins before the next work telephone conference. I'll report back Andy.

Edit update/report - 22 species from the car including Kingfisher, drake Goosander, Stock Dove & Chiffchaff. It will need to keep me going till tomorrow.

All the best

Paul.