Deer culling the natural way (1 Viewer)

[maplekong]

My father claims to have eaten everything while growing up in a poor family - deer, bear, squirrel, groundhog, racoon, and more - everything. They only liked the venison!

I'm not suggesting anything violent, but it does occur to me that "sport hunting" is an oxymoron. "Sport" implies fair competition, so I ask, who's playing defense? Let's see some equally armed competition and then we'll call it a "sport"

I guess the deer being able to run is classed as 'defense' but I get what you mean.

 

[Scott98]

For me, if you're going to eat the deer or elk instead of buying meat at the grocery store, it's sustenance hunting, not sport hunting or trophy hunting. But I guess everyone has their own reasons for what they choose to do.

 

[qwerty5]

I'm all for hunting fair and legal game for the pot and feeding your family. Killing something just to boast or mount as a trophy, is for me akin to small dick syndrome, or else having a red Ferrari or Boss Mustang. Maybe even an old Chevy pick up with a Remington in the side compartment.

Why? Trophy hunters still keep the meat, they aren't wasting the animal, and that right there means there is no inherent problem with it. Getting a bigger or better looking animal is no different than getting a larger life list. Besides, if you read any respected hunting publication, you'll find that the enjoyment of hunting lies in the experience of the hunt, not the kill. The fact is, a larger, older animal simply poses a greater challenge. It requires more skill, more knowledge of nature, more experience. And in the end, a big set of antlers does look cool. Desiring nice things and enjoying the challenge of getting them is not wrong, as long as it is done ethically. Of course, as with any subset of humanity, there are trophy hunters who are abhorrent and repulsive. Good trophy hunters abhor them, possibly more than you. There are also abhorrent and repulsive birders, and I could go on. But you cannot say that trophy hunting is inherently wrong or inferior to other legitimate hobbies. I must also say that I do not know about trophy hunters in Europe, they may be for the most part abhorrent and repulsive. But in America they are not, and you can't take the actions of some idiots and apply that to the entire notion of trophy hunting.

 

[qwerty5]

Desiring nice things and enjoying the challenge of getting them is not wrong, as long as it is done ethically.

And also as long as it does not endanger the health of the animal population.

 

[PYRTLE]

What utter garbage. You only have to look at the worldwide outrage when these idiots posted images of their latest slaying. I easily recall 3 incidents within the last 5 years, unsurprisingly all US citizens, one a female. There was no skill, or knowledge of animal behaviour involved...... all were led to the kill zone by a native experienced tracker so none of the aforementioned attributes required. The meat was not eaten by the shooter, it was elephant, lion and one other that escapes me. Out of the 3, a wealthy dentist saw his lucrative business disappear in a matter of days, quite rightly in my opinion. Another was an obese man, ferried to the area, stepped out and walked a few paces, took aim and fired. One of the creatures killed was the oldest and most famous leader of his pride in a national park, not suffering in health but not allowed to pass with any dignity. Just the ugly sight of his killer and tracker posing next to the lifeless body.
Yes, really at one with nature and taking for the pot.
I say again, stupid idiots and proud to be so.

 

[PYRTLE]

Okay, this is for querty 5 to justify in accordance with his musings in post # 63 please.
Cecil, a collared, much loved and researched lion was lured out of a national park.
He was hit by the dentists arrow and wounded; 12 hours later he was "humanely" despatched by rifle at close range, weak and unable to defend or escape. Fair game? Sporting?
Said dentist had earlier (2006) illegally killed a black bear in the USA. Unknown if the flesh was eaten or offered to locals.
Went on to recently bag an Altai Argali, world's largest sheep. List also includes Polar bears, baboons...... need I really go on?

How does any of this fit in ethically, or fit your noble trophy hunters profile? Please don't swipe aside that he is just a rogue.
And no, I won't be reading any worthwhile hunting publication. If as you suggest, the thrill is in the stalking, patience and enjoyment of the hunt, not the kill.......then why not finally, point, aim and fire - a camera.

Big bucks, + little member = stupid.

Good night.

 

[qwerty5]

What utter garbage. You only have to look at the worldwide outrage when these idiots posted images of their latest slaying. I easily recall 3 incidents within the last 5 years, unsurprisingly all US citizens, one a female. There was no skill, or knowledge of animal behaviour involved...... all were led to the kill zone by a native experienced tracker so none of the aforementioned attributes required. The meat was not eaten by the shooter, it was elephant, lion and one other that escapes me. Out of the 3, a wealthy dentist saw his lucrative business disappear in a matter of days, quite rightly in my opinion. Another was an obese man, ferried to the area, stepped out and walked a few paces, took aim and fired. One of the creatures killed was the oldest and most famous leader of his pride in a national park, not suffering in health but not allowed to pass with any dignity. Just the ugly sight of his killer and tracker posing next to the lifeless body.
Yes, really at one with nature and taking for the pot.
I say again, stupid idiots and proud to be so.

Okay, this is for querty 5 to justify in accordance with his musings in post # 63 please.
Cecil, a collared, much loved and researched lion was lured out of a national park.
He was hit by the dentists arrow and wounded; 12 hours later he was "humanely" despatched by rifle at close range, weak and unable to defend or escape. Fair game? Sporting?
Said dentist had earlier (2006) illegally killed a black bear in the USA. Unknown if the flesh was eaten or offered to locals.
Went on to recently bag an Altai Argali, world's largest sheep. List also includes Polar bears, baboons...... need I really go on?

How does any of this fit in ethically, or fit your noble trophy hunters profile? Please don't swipe aside that he is just a rogue.
And no, I won't be reading any worthwhile hunting publication. If as you suggest, the thrill is in the stalking, patience and enjoyment of the hunt, not the kill.......then why not finally, point, aim and fire - a camera.

Big bucks, + little member = stupid.

Good night.

Did I not say that there are some abhorrent and repulsive trophy hunters? The scum you described is just that, and he certainly didn't kill the lion by ethical means. Their stupidity, however, does not mean that trophy hunting is not a legitimate pastime. Just because someone does something unethical, it doesn't mean that that action is by nature unethical. It's simple logic.

If you did read the respectable hunting publications, you'd find that the actions you describe are abhorred by good hunters (myself included) just as much as by you.

 

[qwerty5]

Also, the news doesn't report on the guy who ethically shoots a nice elk in the Idaho backcountry, because it isn't newsworthy. Shocking and disgusting stories like the one you related are newsworthy, and so that's what you see.

 

[PYRTLE]

f you did read the respectable hunting publications, you'd find that the actions you describe are abhorred by good hunters (myself included) just as much as by you.

Thank you for replying.

 

[MiddleRiver]

Texas Effort To Kill 500 Deer Hits A Major Snag

"I may be broke before it's over, but I don't want to kill my deer."

www.huffpost.com

 

[maplekong]

If they really care about their deer they need to go. However large their ranch is, 500 deer should not be living there. Although I do understand. It would be like killing your pet.

 

[Paultricounty]

Why? Trophy hunters still keep the meat, they aren't wasting the animal, and that right there means there is no inherent problem with it. Getting a bigger or better looking animal is no different than getting a larger life list. Besides, if you read any respected hunting publication, you'll find that the enjoyment of hunting lies in the experience of the hunt, not the kill. The fact is, a larger, older animal simply poses a greater challenge. It requires more skill, more knowledge of nature, more experience. And in the end, a big set of antlers does look cool. Desiring nice things and enjoying the challenge of getting them is not wrong, as long as it is done ethically. Of course, as with any subset of humanity, there are trophy hunters who are abhorrent and repulsive. Good trophy hunters abhor them, possibly more than you. There are also abhorrent and repulsive birders, and I could go on. But you cannot say that trophy hunting is inherently wrong or inferior to other legitimate hobbies. I must also say that I do not know about trophy hunters in Europe, they may be for the most part abhorrent and repulsive. But in America they are not, and you can't take the actions of some idiots and apply that to the entire notion of trophy hunting.

This is very well said. Many years ago I wondered why it was called a sport, it only started to be called sport hunting in the late 1800’s when rules and regulations were established for multiple reasons, at least in the US). I’d say viewpoints on hunting are very varied and not are not one size fits all. The abhorrent is what gives some people their viewpoints on the topic. It’s a little bit like the firearms topic (in the US) where for many, gun crime dictates or influence’s people opinions of guns. Most will focus on the 35k deaths a year (60% are suicides which most people don’t know) , but completely dismiss the 500k-1.5 million people who use a firearm to prevent bodily harm from accruing every year. But of course a lot of that is media driven and ignorance of the topic. Lots of times people will have opinions about something they’ve never tried, or even followed along to see what it’s about. Have you ever heard anybody here on BF have an opinion about binoculars they’ve never tried 😉. I wonder if a lot of people who who call the whole hunting sport or hobby thing wrong, if they fish, and even worse trophy fish. That poor hungry fish being baited (hunting baiting is illegal in US) with life sustaining food only to be gaffed by a hook and having to fight for its life in some cases for an abhorrent amount of time , being slowly pulled to its death to lay flapping on a boat deck gasping. I’m just sayin.

Paul

 

[MiddleRiver]

If they really care about their deer they need to go. However large their ranch is, 500 deer should not be living there. Although I do understand. It would be like killing your pet.

Except they are raising ‘pets’ so they can charge someone $$$$$ to let them kill it! The whole ‘they’re like family’ blows me away. Really…???

 

[Paultricounty]

What utter garbage. You only have to look at the worldwide outrage when these idiots posted images of their latest slaying. I easily recall 3 incidents within the last 5 years, unsurprisingly all US citizens, one a female. There was no skill, or knowledge of animal behaviour involved...... all were led to the kill zone by a native experienced tracker so none of the aforementioned attributes required. The meat was not eaten by the shooter, it was elephant, lion and one other that escapes me. Out of the 3, a wealthy dentist saw his lucrative business disappear in a matter of days, quite rightly in my opinion. Another was an obese man, ferried to the area, stepped out and walked a few paces, took aim and fired. One of the creatures killed was the oldest and most famous leader of his pride in a national park, not suffering in health but not allowed to pass with any dignity. Just the ugly sight of his killer and tracker posing next to the lifeless body.
Yes, really at one with nature and taking for the pot.
I say again, stupid idiots and proud to be so.

I think what you describe is what most hunters would call abhorrent behavior and that is the exception. In the United States in 2019 they were 15.2 million hunters licensed , that rose 9.2% just after the pandemic. You can recall 3 incidence in 5 years ,so that would be 5x15 million= 75 million hunters.

I don’t think anybody thinks those hand full of horrible examples are acceptable or common. Now I don’t know if you ever hunted or been around hunting clubs to actually see or participate, but I can tell you over my 40 years of on and off rabbit and deer hunting , hunting and wildlife conservation continuing education , hunting shows, and NRA firearms instructor have never met one hunter that behaved in the manner you describe. Now I’d say opinions are like that body part we all know the saying , and there are a lot of stupid idiot opinions given by people, but at least they don’t hurt anybody.

 

[Paultricounty]

Also, the news doesn't report on the guy who ethically shoots a nice elk in the Idaho backcountry, because it isn't newsworthy. Shocking and disgusting stories like the one you related are newsworthy, and so that's what you see.

He doesn’t get it, it goes in one ear and comes out the other. He doesn’t care or want to hear that most all hunters think this behavior is intolerable and is not acceptable in any manner, to ten of millions of people who participate in the hobby. He’s as rigid and dug in like a tick on a hound dog. Cherry picking the worst examples + insulting millions of people = stupid +.

 

[PYRTLE]

I think what you describe is what most hunters would call abhorrent behavior and that is the exception. In the United States in 2019 they were 15.2 million hunters licensed , that rose 9.2% just after the pandemic. You can recall 3 incidence in 5 years ,so that would be 5x15 million= 75 million hunters.

I don’t think anybody thinks those hand full of horrible examples are acceptable or common. Now I don’t know if you ever hunted or been around hunting clubs to actually see or participate, but I can tell you over my 40 years of on and off rabbit and deer hunting , hunting and wildlife conservation continuing education , hunting shows, and NRA firearms instructor have never met one hunter that behaved in the manner you describe. Now I’d say opinions are like that body part we all know the saying , and there are a lot of stupid idiot opinions given by people, but at least they don’t hurt anybody.

Hi Paul..... I gave just 3 very quick examples ; I'm sure I could list many more if I had the inclination. I used to shoot many moons ago - pest control and for the pot......woodpigeon and rabbit / 12 bore side by side. Put my shotgun down one day and sold it soon after. There's many people like me who dislike trophy hunters and their followers and if you care to reread my posts carefully you'll find I have no qualms with folks killing for the pot. Get it right please.

 

[Paultricounty]

Hi Paul..... I gave just 3 very quick examples ; I'm sure I could list many more if I had the inclination. I used to shoot many moons ago - pest control and for the pot......woodpigeon and rabbit / 12 bore side by side. Put my shotgun down one day and sold it soon after.

I’m sure you could , and I’m sure there are dozens if not hundreds of abhorrent , disgusting examples of bad behavior in the hobby. I’m sure you’d agree there is abhorrent behavior in many if not most hobbies, sports etc. etc. (like the fishing analogy I gave ) So you had a change of heart , so why are people stupid because you changed your mind about something you used to do? Maybe you had a few really bad experiences with bad shot placement and watched an animal suffer because you were not skilled, or whatever. The thing that gets me is your condescending attitude and labeling millions of hunters around the world stupid. How many years did you fall into that category yourself. A few bad people do bad things, and that equates to all the hunters. It’s like drunk drivers kill thousand a year , are car drivers stupid?

 

[PYRTLE]

I’m sure you could , and I’m sure there are dozens if not hundreds of abhorrent , disgusting examples of bad behavior in the hobby. I’m sure you’d agree there is abhorrent behavior in many if not most hobbies, sports etc. etc. (like the fishing analogy I gave ) So you had a change of heart , so why are people stupid because you changed your mind about something you used to do? Maybe you had a few really bad experiences with bad shot placement and watched an animal suffer because you were not skilled, or whatever. The thing that gets me is your condescending attitude and labeling millions of hunters around the world stupid. How many years did you fall into that category yourself. A few bad people do bad things, and that equates to all the hunters. It’s like drunk drivers kill thousand a year , are car drivers stupid,

Paul, YOU don't get it pal, I'll spell it out clearly for you.....Trophy Hunters.
Yep, I did have a change of heart - maturing, growing up, whatever, or maybe just not enjoying the process. Your last sentence doesn't warrant an answer eect it should end in the correct punctuation mark.

 

[qwerty5]

Paul, YOU don't get it pal, I'll spell it out clearly for you.....Trophy Hunters.

Please don't take this as me being mean or rude, but I think you don't get it.
I'm certain that there are meat hunters who behave abhorrently. That doesn't mean the entire activity or group of people gets condemned. I'm certain there are fishermen that behave abhorrently, but that doesn't mean that fishing or all fishermen should be abhorred. The same goes for trophy hunting. There is nothing wrong or abhorrent about the activity of trophy hunting itself, but there are individuals who do it unethically and abhorrently.

 

[qwerty5]

Except they are raising ‘pets’ so they can charge someone $$$$$ to let them kill it! The whole ‘they’re like family’ blows me away. Really…???

I get quite annoyed when every government decision has to spend a year in court because someone doesn't like it. Litigation has grown into a ridiculous monster in this country.