Diver ID please? (1 Viewer)

[Scozmos]

I got a LOT of Diver photos on Lewis last week and think there may be two different ones? This one first if possible please? I'm pretty certain I have some GND shots as well.

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

The first one is certainly a Great Northern Diver.

 

[Scozmos]

The first one is certainly a Great Northern Diver.

From memory they're the same bird Andrew, cheers I wasn't sure of this one

 

[Butty]

I wasn't sure of this one

It has the classic features: especially head shape + lower neck pattern. Your field guide will illustrate this.

 

[Scozmos]

It has the classic features: especially head shape + lower neck pattern. Your field guide will illustrate this.

Thanks Butty, genuine question, I don't have a field guide, what would you recommend? This is why I was querying the first shots.

 

[Butty]

This time, a classic red-throated diver: bill shape, head posture, neck pattern.
My views on field guides for beginners (viz. get a nice simple one, RSPB or BTO or whatever's currently good and doesn't use photos) differ from most people's - so I will just let them give their usual advice... But, yes, a field guide is an absolute essential for learning bird ID.

 

[foresttwitcher]

OK, I'll take the bait and recommend Collins Bird Guide (Lars Svensson)...

 

[kb57]

I partly agree with Butty here. If we are talking about starting out birding, and you're based in the British Isles, then RSPB Handbook of British Birds has a lot of information about everything you're likely to see, and quite a few that you aren't. Collins is an excellent guide if you are likely to be travelling in Europe, but covers a much wider range of species, and could therefore be a bit overwhelming.
Where I differ from Butty is I think photo guides have improved a lot as an ID tool, and are also now being packaged as serious field guides. Following the same logic as above, I'd recommend Britain's Birds (Hume et al; Wildguides) for a more in-depth treatment (including most rarities you're ever (un)likely to encounter), and Europe's Birds for a more comprehensive treatment if you're planning on travelling. They're physically quite large and heavy books though, the RSPB Handbook is more practical for field use.
I'm not a big fan of online field guides, the paper versions remain much more practical, but the eBird and Merlin apps are a different matter. eBird will give you a list of species seen around your current location, while the Merlin sound ID and photo ID work pretty well.

 

[THE_FERN]

From memory they're the same bird Andrew, cheers I wasn't sure of this one

It could just be the angle but the bill shape and gently sloping firehead of the second picture looks more like red-throated to me (i.e. not the same bird)

 

[Redmist]

Rising to the bait as well, I’ve found the Collins bird guide app is cheap, comprehensive, includes range maps and even songs and calls. Plus it’s always in your pocket. But it’s not as nice to browse back home

 

[Stonefaction]

I agree to some extent that Collins is 'too much' field guide for UK birding alone (though the app does let you filter by location - though I did find a few errors when I tried that). The Merlin app can be used as a field guide of sorts (you can filter by birds likely in your location) - and you can try to ID birds with it in 3 ways - answering questions (location/activity/colours etc), sound ID and photo ID, but if you want a book solely for UK birds then the Wildguides "British Birds - A Pocket Guide" has a lot going for it (including the price). I do have a stack of older fieldguides surplus to requirements that some may/may not be of interest though most of the 'best' ones have gone already (PM me if they might be of interest, Brian).

 

[Prestdj]

i dont use birding apps, im quite able to id birds myself without the use of algoritiums or whatever they are! field guides love them, require no signal and more info
though i do like gulls research website but not updated often

as for the divers gnd and rtd

 

[Butty]

the app does let you filter by location - though I did find a few errors when I tried that

Technically, yes, it does - but it's an oft-repeated myth (or at least the usual implication is mythical) that setting this 'filter' then leaves the app functioning as a field guide restricted to a specific region. It does not do this: it's just a search filter - it does not reset the app's coverage and leave it like that until it's re-reset. In other words, it's terribly clunky and inadequate - as are so many other aspects of this poorly-constructed and under-featured app.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Technically, yes, it does - but it's an oft-repeated myth (or at least the usual implication is mythical) that setting this 'filter' then leaves the app functioning as a field guide restricted to a specific region. It does not do this: it's just a search filter - it does not reset the app's coverage and leave it like that until it's re-reset. In other words, it's terribly clunky and inadequate - as are so many other aspects of this poorly-constructed and under-featured app.

Talking about Merlin or Collins?

 

[Stonefaction]

i dont use birding apps, im quite able to id birds myself without the use of algoritiums or whatever they are! field guides love them, require no signal and more info
though i do like gulls research website but not updated often

as for the divers gnd and rtd

You don't need a signal for an app that is installed on your phone (unless you are uploading location or similar). The Collins app has all the info on the species that the book has - with the addition of Status in GB and Ireland and more importantly recordings of songs/calls for most birds that you can listen to, rather than just try to translate someone's phonetic impression of them. It also lets you compare birds side by side, something slightly trickier to do with a paper fieldguide, and you can filter . I prefer a book too, but having the app on my phone - which I'm carrying with me anyway, saves on weight/space in already rather full bag, for those rare ocassions when I do actually need it - though given I spend most of my birding in Dundee that isn't very often.

Technically, yes, it does - but it's an oft-repeated myth (or at least the usual implication is mythical) that setting this 'filter' then leaves the app functioning as a field guide restricted to a specific region. It does not do this: it's just a search filter - it does not reset the app's coverage and leave it like that until it's re-reset. In other words, it's terribly clunky and inadequate - as are so many other aspects of this poorly-constructed and under-featured app.

Having just read your post, I went into the Settings on the Collins app and set the app to show species for Scotland only - then I turned off my phone and re-opened the app when I switched the phone back on. It is still only showing the Scotland only species. (There are species missing that I think should be in there for Scotland only, but it does actually appear to leave the app as a specific region fieldguide, despite your assertion that it doesn't). The app isn't perfect but it weighs a lot less than the paper copy and I always have my phone with me when birding anyway, so I find it better to have than not to, though I rarely have any cause to use it.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Filters on both the Collins app and Merlin work perfectly well for me too - for example, I can set Baltic States for Collins and Lithuania for Merlin, they remain there when I open the app next time.

 

[Butty]

Talking about Merlin or Collins?

My comment was quoting someone who was talking about Collins - hence I was too. I apologise for not making that more clear.

It also lets you compare birds side by side, something slightly trickier to do with a paper fieldguide

Is this iOS? The Android version (phone - no idea about tablets) doesn't let you do this (I've never heard that iOS does either?). A side-by-side 'compare' function should be a key and added-value feature of an app: the Android phone app has a clunky switch-between-screens compare, but no side-by-side capability; it was improved slightly for edn 3, but it's still clunky and inconvenient to the point of (I find) being of minimal use. It's easier (I find) to compare species using the book.

I went into the Settings on the Collins app and set the app to show species for Scotland only - then I turned off my phone and re-opened the app when I switched the phone back on. It is still only showing the Scotland only species

Again... Is this iOS? The Android version doesn't work this way. In Android it's not in Settings - you get it from: Search bar > Filter icon > Location and Season - and after that it's like any other search filter, viz. you can lose it altogether if you inadvertently hit Back at the wrong moment, and if you close the app and remove it from the recent-apps list (as one commonly does, both to keep the list usable and to reduce processor/memory overheads) all filters (including location) are lost. Moreover, setting the location filter just gives you a big continuous list of all species - no family grouping - so you lose the ability to whizz thru families before descending to species level.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Is this iOS? The Android version (phone - no idea about tablets) doesn't let you do this (I've never heard that iOS does either?). A side-by-side 'compare' function should be a key and added-value feature of an app: the Android phone app has a clunky switch-between-screens compare, but no side-by-side capability; it was improved slightly for edn 3, but it's still clunky and inconvenient to the point of (I find) being of minimal use. It's easier (I find) to compare species using the book.

Again... Is this iOS? The Android version doesn't work this way. In Android it's not in Settings - you get it from: Search bar > Filter icon > Location and Season - and after that it's like any other search filter, viz. you can lose it altogether if you inadvertently hit Back at the wrong moment, and if you close the app and remove it from the recent-apps list (as one commonly does, both to keep the list usable and to reduce processor/memory overheads) all filters (including location) are lost. Moreover, setting the location filter just gives you a big continuous list of all species - no family grouping - so you lose the ability to whizz thru families before descending to species level.

I can do both of those on Android. The compare is very simple and brings species together on a single screen. The location stays set even if I leave the app and return later, but I do lose the ability to open in family groups (I have no use for the location filter anyhow, so no issue for me)

 

[Stonefaction]

My comment was quoting someone who was talking about Collins - hence I was too. I apologise for not making that more clear.

Is this iOS? The Android version (phone - no idea about tablets) doesn't let you do this (I've never heard that iOS does either?). A side-by-side 'compare' function should be a key and added-value feature of an app: the Android phone app has a clunky switch-between-screens compare, but no side-by-side capability; it was improved slightly for edn 3, but it's still clunky and inconvenient to the point of (I find) being of minimal use. It's easier (I find) to compare species using the book.

Again... Is this iOS? The Android version doesn't work this way. In Android it's not in Settings - you get it from: Search bar > Filter icon > Location and Season - and after that it's like any other search filter, viz. you can lose it altogether if you inadvertently hit Back at the wrong moment, and if you close the app and remove it from the recent-apps list (as one commonly does, both to keep the list usable and to reduce processor/memory overheads) all filters (including location) are lost. Moreover, setting the location filter just gives you a big continuous list of all species - no family grouping - so you lose the ability to whizz thru families before descending to species level.

It was iOS, but I see Jos has commented with regards Android in the intervening period. I believe one of the main issue with regards Android apps (in general) is that they do not work on a 'standard' operating system (unlike the very rigid iOS), so what works on a Samsung, might not work exactly the same on a Huawei (or whatever), and can be a bit of a nightmare for app developers, compared to iOS.

(Numbers 1, 2 & 10 in this list probably explains the difficulties better than I can - 10 Most Common Challenges in Android App Development).

 

[Harrybongo]

Hi. I use the Collins 2nd ed - excellent illustrations and text, also, Rspb British birds 2nd ed, both are excellent guides... If l was just starting out, I'd get one of each. 👍