As by subject: are there any sellers that order NEW scopes from a manufacturer, open the box, star test the scope, check resolution against a standard, and then (1) send back the lemons, and for the scopes that are OK (2) give said info to the buyer? I know it is a hassle, but I would pay premium for that.
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Does anybody sell tested scopes? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Fedster
- Start date
I know there is a seller on EBay with a long history, Scopehed1 that states in their description of selling their Svbony 46P ED Spotting Scopes version that they open and test everyone before shipping to their buyers.
Hi,
there are two problems with that...
- the star test is a very delicate qualitative test - not quantitative... for that, you would need an interferometer plus the necessary software.
- any seller doing this would soon cease to be a seller due to lack of supply from the manufacturer...
Joachim
Yes, if you have a good relationship with a person in the shop who knows how to test telescopes.
With the mid to low grade telescopes there are some very good ones and the manufacturer well knows that many telescopes are poor.
They may well be content that the importer just chucks the poor ones in the trash and will give a credit note for them.
Regards,
B.
With the mid to low grade telescopes there are some very good ones and the manufacturer well knows that many telescopes are poor.
They may well be content that the importer just chucks the poor ones in the trash and will give a credit note for them.
Regards,
B.
beacon hill
Well-known member
Don`t do a star test.
But as a dealer, every binocular, monocular and spotting scopes are taken out the box and tested before sending.
Even check telescope eyepieces and filters individually.
On the rare occasion something does not pass the test, it is sent back for a replacement.
Large telescopes are the exception due to the time it would take to set up.
Could drop ship with some brands. But for peace of mind for me and the customer, I like to be the last
line of defence. For this reason many buyers are happy with the extra day or 2 this takes.
But as a dealer, every binocular, monocular and spotting scopes are taken out the box and tested before sending.
Even check telescope eyepieces and filters individually.
On the rare occasion something does not pass the test, it is sent back for a replacement.
Large telescopes are the exception due to the time it would take to set up.
Could drop ship with some brands. But for peace of mind for me and the customer, I like to be the last
line of defence. For this reason many buyers are happy with the extra day or 2 this takes.
Hi,
yes, one might get a cherry from a merchant due to being pals, being a good customer with lots of business or just asking nicely.
As for the importer just chucking the poor ones, that might work with some very cheap chinese (or soviet back in the days) optics. Nowadays I don't think so, especially not if you get into the alpha sphere...
I once found a very terrible Apo Televid 82 in a store and the owner knew that too well and had a story to tell about his trouble with Leica to get that returned...
Joachim
5% to 10% more
I would certainly pay the extra 10% simply for an actual performance summary shown versus the suppliers expected standard.
Right now, the customer gets nothing but fine prose, fancy packaging and the actual product. No factual data at all other than the physical dimensions and the magnification.
For alpha customers making a multi thousand dollar purchase, this seems almost contemptuous treatment.
Right now, the customer gets nothing but fine prose, fancy packaging and the actual product. No factual data at all other than the physical dimensions and the magnification.
For alpha customers making a multi thousand dollar purchase, this seems almost contemptuous treatment.
Astro-physics scopes may come with a test report.
I don't know about Takahashi.
But my astro friends who sell scopes certainly knew how to test and supply the best sample they had.
The problem is most retailers don't have anybody competent enough to accurately test a scope.
But some do, and I buy from them.
Personally, I frequently tested six identical binoculars and bought the best one.
Another good way is to buy a scope from a trusted friend who is expert at testing and who is selling equipment to replace with something else.
Regards,
B.
I don't know about Takahashi.
But my astro friends who sell scopes certainly knew how to test and supply the best sample they had.
The problem is most retailers don't have anybody competent enough to accurately test a scope.
But some do, and I buy from them.
Personally, I frequently tested six identical binoculars and bought the best one.
Another good way is to buy a scope from a trusted friend who is expert at testing and who is selling equipment to replace with something else.
Regards,
B.
Did you (regularly?) see noticeable optical differences between binoculars of the exact same model and the same age as well (as e.g.coatongs sometimes get silently updated), with well regarded brands?
(Apart from some differences in maybe smoothness of focusse, tightness of hinge etc.)
There have been quite some posts about 'lemons', 'cherry samples', star testing etc. in the scope section, where high magnifications etc.are used. But I haven't read much about that with regards to binoculars (at regular 7-10x magnification). I never had the occasion to do such comparisons and am thus interested in hearing about it.
Yes, there are significant differences with identical low to middle price binoculars.
These differences are obvious with 20/15 vision optically, and mechanically there is also a lot of variation.
I have not been able to test six top quality identical binoculars at the same time.
In general, the higher the price the better the quality control, but not always.
I have been shocked at how good some secondhand binoculars are that cost around £50.
The number of seriously good binoculars I have tested is low, but I don't buy dozens of top end binoculars.
In general, professional and military optics are better than consumer optics.
When I trawled the eight local charity shops I basically traded my time for getting low price bargains.
My friends used ex gov auctions or lost items auctions and general auctions.
I tried this but it is too much like hard work.
Sometimes just good luck turned up great items.
Here, on birdforum, the goal seems to be on the newest and greatest.
I am quite happy with good older optics.
In short, Binoculars were introduced in the 1600s.
Prisms in the late 1800s, with possibly relay optics or mirrors before this for upright images, although some astro binoculars just had inverted images.
Coatings came about 1940.
Image stabilizers in the 1990s.
Glass types have also steadily advanced, but many new glasses are fragile or tarnish instantly unless immediately hard coated.
But yes, identical looking binoculars vary, sometimes considerably.
Regards,
B.
These differences are obvious with 20/15 vision optically, and mechanically there is also a lot of variation.
I have not been able to test six top quality identical binoculars at the same time.
In general, the higher the price the better the quality control, but not always.
I have been shocked at how good some secondhand binoculars are that cost around £50.
The number of seriously good binoculars I have tested is low, but I don't buy dozens of top end binoculars.
In general, professional and military optics are better than consumer optics.
When I trawled the eight local charity shops I basically traded my time for getting low price bargains.
My friends used ex gov auctions or lost items auctions and general auctions.
I tried this but it is too much like hard work.
Sometimes just good luck turned up great items.
Here, on birdforum, the goal seems to be on the newest and greatest.
I am quite happy with good older optics.
In short, Binoculars were introduced in the 1600s.
Prisms in the late 1800s, with possibly relay optics or mirrors before this for upright images, although some astro binoculars just had inverted images.
Coatings came about 1940.
Image stabilizers in the 1990s.
Glass types have also steadily advanced, but many new glasses are fragile or tarnish instantly unless immediately hard coated.
But yes, identical looking binoculars vary, sometimes considerably.
Regards,
B.
It would be great if Astro-Physics' good example was catching. Swaro or Zeiss surely could make those measurements automatically.
Maybe it will be the Chinese who lead the way, by providing actually pertinent product information..
Unfortunately currently I can't imagine even a top tier high volume store such as B&H here in NYC offering a half dozen binocular samples for appraisal.
There is usually just one sample copy available for inspection, if purchased, a factory sealed separate unit is delivered at the checkout counter.
Buyers are really stuck, their only recourse is to return the item.
Thanks for the reply!
I agree about some cheap second hand binoculars being very good, if you can find a bargain. I had that twice: with a small Komz 6x30 and with a small Docter 8x30 that I found very cheap, both near mint, optically and externally. I was using the Komz 6x24 yesterday, camping with also two nephews: if not wearing glasses, it is very good and easy for sharing with kids too. While many similarly priced second hand I would never buy. Either because not good by design/make, or degraded over time.
All except 1 of my binoculars were bought second hand. Thus I never had the occasion to compare 2 of the same model directly.
I am wondering if samples of identical models of new binoculars from e.g. Kite, Opticron, Nikon starting from the Monarch 7 range or "Alpha" brands would show noticeable optical variation if new.
What is the point of appraisal?
This binocular has quite a bit of glare near bright light sources.
Because of collimation procedure one or both barrels show slight offsets in star images.
There is a bit of spherical aberration.
There is some CA.
The eye relief may not suit you.
Why on Earth would either the manufacturer or the store want to give truly honest information unless the scope is truly outstanding?
It doesn't satisfy either the store, the maker or the customer.
It is up to the customer to make the appraisal, or a trusted supplier, maker or dealer who really knows optics.
From my point of view, if the binocular or telescope is good enough for the observation I use it.
The few really outstanding optics I have had I usually didn't use because they were more difficult to use.
Regards,
B.
This binocular has quite a bit of glare near bright light sources.
Because of collimation procedure one or both barrels show slight offsets in star images.
There is a bit of spherical aberration.
There is some CA.
The eye relief may not suit you.
Why on Earth would either the manufacturer or the store want to give truly honest information unless the scope is truly outstanding?
It doesn't satisfy either the store, the maker or the customer.
It is up to the customer to make the appraisal, or a trusted supplier, maker or dealer who really knows optics.
From my point of view, if the binocular or telescope is good enough for the observation I use it.
The few really outstanding optics I have had I usually didn't use because they were more difficult to use.
Regards,
B.
The BulbMogul
Well-known member
they would expect it for free plus want 15% discount and free shipping..!
Imho, the point of an objective appraisal is to provide an incentive to do better.
As is, we have weak standards, (afaik there is a DIN standard for binocular optics, but it apparently so loose that Zeiss does not use it) which manufacturers try to meet as cheaply as possible. That is the recipe for a race to the bottom, especially when the buyer is kept entirely in the dark about the actual results.
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