Eagle Owls in Yorkshire?? (1 Viewer)

[StevieEvans]

Given that the location is already being guessed at, I would suggest no answer to this one Salty. Overall, the less clues to their whereabouts, the better for the owls.

Hi Jos
Good point, im sure if theres a influx of birders to that area then the birds may be threatened to be " moved on "......
This sort of " veiled threat " seems to keep birders away from the "secret" pair of breeding Golden Eagles in Northern England.

hasn't the location already been divulged in previous posts?

In fact it's not even hard to find detail on the net!

PS. Im sure Salty told me he had all the necessary access permissions from the tenant farmer, prior to his visit.

Probably best for everyone to keep well away.....

SE

 

[Amarillo]

The only point that needs to be established is whether these birds are escapees or natural colonisers. Every effort must be made by the RSPB to establish this fact.

I don't see how this is possible. How can you prove that a bird hasn't escaped from captivity?

Great news that they are now protected.

 

[Brian Bullough]

Eagle Owl likes Yorkies !!!

Not that the thick chocolate bar loved by truck drivers!
I also watched the repeat and was surprised at the footnote re protection and thought perhaps I had missed it from the first airing had a quick look via Google for any info and came across this, http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=91772005 most of the info is pure speculation or heresay,but at least now there is documented evidence of, was it 23 young reared from the Yorkshire sight.(where are they)
While watching Red Kites near Barlow a car pulled up and out piled a large family a quick look at the Kites and dad announces that these birds are hated by everyone as they kill everything and they have been known to swoop down and snatch small dogs,in the car and gone. Its the sort of thing the press love to get hold of.
Overall I thought the programme was very well researched with some startling but interesting findings.
Brian

 

[talon]

Didn't see tonights repeat, this seems a bit odd to me? Anyone know exactly what was said on this "footnote".
Under what law are they now protected ?

John.

well wat i saw of last nights programme a bloke from the cou said that they r not protected but if they decide to let eagle owls gain a substantial number then they will be under the wildlife and country side act but ithink they should be left well alone just allwing them to be watched by birdwatchers and they should not be iradicated tey have as much right to be in this courty as we do and who r we to say that they cant breed here

 

[Huub]

Excellent show. But I'm not sure that I agree with the show's optimism (or pessimism for others) about the EOs chances of colonising Britain. 1 pair breeding for 10yrs, producing 20 young, along with another around 50 free flying escapees, and no new breeding pairs? That hardly points towards exponential growth. In contrast, UK red kite population must now be getting towards a 1,000 pairs. Surely this suggests that there are problems for the Owls in this country?

If I were a bunny, I would rest easy, unless I lived in North Yorkshire that is.

Yes, a beautiful documentary !, unfortunately totally and unnecessary ashamed by the reputational conservation bodies RSPB and BOU and their 'experts' .

Spreading a message of fear and unnecessary anxiety about Eagle Owls
(because they are not on the British List or can take some 'not so common' birdprey) is appalling, irresponsible and not basically
different of those medieval views that led to the prosecution and disappearance of many other birds of prey in Europe.
And based on WHAT are these organisations proclaiming their stupid views?
One pair in Yorkshire hunting rabbits???
Certainly not on their field experience with Eagle Owls....

Steve Dudley, on behalf of the BOU, and Julian Hughes & Duncan Orr-Ewing of RSPB proclaim a
view totally lacking any ecological sense or wisdom concerning this owl species.
Without any sense of realism they treat the Eagle Owl as some exotic
duck-species from far abroad (of which England by the way has quite enough)
and base their opinion on 1 or 2 cases in Holland, where some birds did have
some 'uncommon' species on their menu, like Buzzard and Barn Owl (mainly
because their staple diet temporarily diminished).

Steve Dudley actually gives the nestdisturbers and eggrobbers a blank cheque by emphasizing that the birds are not protected by the Wildlife and Countryside Act, because they're not on his 200-years list!!

Hopefully BOU soon puts an end to its 'scientific' narrow-mindedness.
What if a pair of Common Cranes decide to start nesting in a Scottish moor?
Or a couple of Great White Egrets turn up in an RSPB reserve?
WILL STEVE ACCEPT THIS??? or WHAT DOES JULIAN THINK???

European Eagle Owls are best left alone and can certainly do without the overanxious bureaumanagers of RSPB and BOU!!

Huub Don
field ornithologist
The Netherlands (Eagle Owl country since 1997)

 

[IanF]

Interesting observation Huub, I did hear it mentioned that at the BOU and the RSPB resignations had been tendered following the program but it was unclear whether they 'had been' or 'should have been' tendered!

Neither organisation had much credibility from the comments made.

 

[StevieEvans]

Yes, a beautiful documentary !, unfortunately totally and unnecessary ashamed by the reputational conservation bodies RSPB and BOU and their 'experts' .

Spreading a message of fear and unnecessary anxiety about Eagle Owls
(because they are not on the British List or can take some 'not so common' birdprey) is appalling, irresponsible and not basically
different of those medieval views that led to the prosecution and disappearance of many other birds of prey in Europe.
And based on WHAT are these organisations proclaiming their stupid views?
One pair in Yorkshire hunting rabbits???
Certainly not on their field experience with Eagle Owls....

Steve Dudley, on behalf of the BOU, and Julian Hughes & Duncan Orr-Ewing of RSPB proclaim a
view totally lacking any ecological sense or wisdom concerning this owl species.
Without any sense of realism they treat the Eagle Owl as some exotic
duck-species from far abroad (of which England by the way has quite enough)
and base their opinion on 1 or 2 cases in Holland, where some birds did have
some 'uncommon' species on their menu, like Buzzard and Barn Owl (mainly
because their staple diet temporarily diminished).

Steve Dudley actually gives the nestdisturbers and eggrobbers a blank cheque by emphasizing that the birds are not protected by the Wildlife and Countryside Act, because they're not on his 200-years list!!

Hopefully BOU soon puts an end to its 'scientific' narrow-mindedness.
What if a pair of Common Cranes decide to start nesting in a Scottish moor?
Or a couple of Great White Egrets turn up in an RSPB reserve?
WILL STEVE ACCEPT THIS??? or WHAT DOES JULIAN THINK???

European Eagle Owls are best left alone and can certainly do without the overanxious bureaumanagers of RSPB and BOU!!

Huub Don
field ornithologist
The Netherlands (Eagle Owl country since 1997)

Hi Huub & Welcome to BF
Agree with most of what you say.
Nice to see a comment from someone with a great passion & experience of the subject matter.
Steve.
(Save the Corncrake - Ban the Eagle Owl) NOT.

 

[Amarillo]

Totally agree with you Huub, well said.

The attitude of some RSPB/BOU employees really shocked me. These conservation bodies need more people like Roy Dennis.

 

[Reay_Bonxie]

The thing that I found astonishing about the documentary was the fact that they pitched any future success of the eagle owl against the survival of the corncrake. As far as I know the corncrake is a skulker and so the EO will predate on more visually prominant species in preference. It was definitely aimed to affect public opinion rather than to inform us in an unbiased manner.

 

[Marmot]

I only watched it yesterday (Shame on me) and I was also taken aback by the attitude of the protection/consevation bodies on this, I wonder if the speakers had there statements on this ok'd by both organisations before hand or wether this was just their own opinion.

Yet again the RSPB has gone down in my estimation. Surely they are for the protection of birds whatever the circumstances of how they got there. As far as I am concerned they have bred and are living wild so they need whatever protection they can get from some idiots who on hearing they are not protected may just have a go for the kudos of it.

 

[Amarillo]

Surely they are for the protection of birds whatever the circumstances of how they got there.

Not necessarily. Genuine exotics are a different matter altogether.

But their regard of a species certainly native to neighbouring european countries and possibly native to Britain, as an alien is baffling, to say the least.

Some common sense needs to be applied rather than simply saying its not on the British list so its as much an alien as a ring-necked parakeet or a ruddy duck.

 

[Dave H]

I find it a little strange that this has only now become a major issue. If they have been under observation for 8 years, and breeding successfully, is there not an argument that the relevant authorities ought to have taken action before they became "established".

I would find it reasonably incompetent if they decided only now to begin an extermination if their opinion of the owls' origin was as sceptical all along.

As someone who loves birds but can claim to be far less knowledgeable or indeed particularly interested on their UK origins than some of the posters here, my view is that these birds have been left to establish in the UK without interference until now, and I for one would be happy to see that continue.

Most important of all however, is that I am genuinely concerned that those who hold positions of importance in our birding world do not seem to share the same passion as I do for birds, nor the commitment to protecting and conserving their future. But then, i am an o

 

[cheshirebirder]

Yes, a beautiful documentary !, unfortunately totally and unnecessary ashamed by the reputational conservation bodies RSPB and BOU and their 'experts' .

Spreading a message of fear and unnecessary anxiety about Eagle Owls
(because they are not on the British List or can take some 'not so common' birdprey) is appalling, irresponsible and not basically
different of those medieval views that led to the prosecution and disappearance of many other birds of prey in Europe.
And based on WHAT are these organisations proclaiming their stupid views?
One pair in Yorkshire hunting rabbits???
Certainly not on their field experience with Eagle Owls....

Steve Dudley, on behalf of the BOU, and Julian Hughes & Duncan Orr-Ewing of RSPB proclaim a
view totally lacking any ecological sense or wisdom concerning this owl species.
Without any sense of realism they treat the Eagle Owl as some exotic
duck-species from far abroad (of which England by the way has quite enough)
and base their opinion on 1 or 2 cases in Holland, where some birds did have
some 'uncommon' species on their menu, like Buzzard and Barn Owl (mainly
because their staple diet temporarily diminished).

Steve Dudley actually gives the nestdisturbers and eggrobbers a blank cheque by emphasizing that the birds are not protected by the Wildlife and Countryside Act, because they're not on his 200-years list!!

Hopefully BOU soon puts an end to its 'scientific' narrow-mindedness.
What if a pair of Common Cranes decide to start nesting in a Scottish moor?
Or a couple of Great White Egrets turn up in an RSPB reserve?
WILL STEVE ACCEPT THIS??? or WHAT DOES JULIAN THINK???

European Eagle Owls are best left alone and can certainly do without the overanxious bureaumanagers of RSPB and BOU!!

Huub Don
field ornithologist
The Netherlands (Eagle Owl country since 1997)

Agree totally with Huub's posting. Made me think about resigning from the RSPB if that's their attitude. If the RSPB want to focus their attention on an alien predator of our wild birds they should look no further than the domestic cat - killer of millions , including every nest of various species every year in my garden. Funny that there is a deafening silence from them on that issue. Probably because many of their members own moggies?

 

[phart]

I don't see how this is possible. How can you prove that a bird hasn't escaped from captivity?

Great news that they are now protected.

I'm not sure that it can be established. DNA could possibly show that they are definitely escapees (if they were form the middle eastern race for instance and all captive birds were from that race: although even that would be slightly conjectural as they could have flown from the middle east I guess, even though it is far less likely). However, DNA probably can't prove that they are definitely wild. There are sometimes markers on the DNA that can identify families or animals coming from a particular region even though they aren't subspecies and this might possibly show that they originate from a certain place or group of parents. However, if the birds are the same genetically as those from anywhere in the regions adjacent to Britian; Scandinavia, northern europe or Spain then it can't be proven that they're not wild. That's enough for me.


If it can't be proved that they're escapees then there cannot be a case against them and they should quickly be protected as a fantastic addition to our native fauna. I guess if they were definitely proved to be escapes there might be some scope for calling them exotics, but if that can't be proven then there's no case.

Actually, my main point was that even if they have never been seen in the UK before that is not a good case for getting rid of them. That's why I mentioned collared doves that were new and natural colonisers of the British Isles and as such were perfectly valid as new species. Natural colonisation of Britain by a bird that has never been seen here before is perfectly acceptable as far as I am concerned. That's why, if there's an issue, it must only be about the origins of the birds not about there previous natural status in the UK. That was my point.

 

[phart]

One aspect that bothers me is why they weren't ringed by their original owners if they are captive birds? Surely all/most birds held in captivity are ringed and that would obviously enable them to be quickly identified when recaptured. Isn't it a legal requirement for a bird such as an eagle owl to be ringed if kept in captivity?

 

[cheshirebirder]

One aspect that bothers me is why they weren't ringed by their original owners if they are captive birds? Surely all/most birds held in captivity are ringed and that would obviously enable them to be quickly identified when recaptured. Isn't it a legal requirement for a bird such as an eagle owl to be ringed if kept in captivity?

Maybe they were kept illegally? There is certainly a black market in animals.

 

[London Birder]

does anyone have a link or anything with regards to the recent protection of these birds, I can't find a thing!

 

[phart]

Maybe they were kept illegally? There is certainly a black market in animals.

Yes, I guess that's possible and that would make it even harder to prove these birds were captive as there would be inadequate records of captive birds, their origins and their DNA. However, I still think the onus is on the authorities to prove they are escapees if they want to control them rather than protect them and if they want to discount natural colonisation.

 

[barry potter]

Totally agree with you Huub, well said.

The attitude of some RSPB/BOU employees really shocked me. These conservation bodies need more people like Roy Dennis.

i am in total agreement at least Roy is passionate about his job
barry :scribe:

 

[Jos Stratford]

Made me think about resigning from the RSPB if that's their attitude.

I would urge anybody even considering this to think about the subject in greater depth ...you might be disappointed with occasional opinions by the body or even with certain policies, but then take a few moments to see the MASSIVE contribution they have made to the fantastic diversity of birdlife and other wildlife in the UK, not only through the large number of fantastic reserves, but also through their wider programs of conservation and awareness programs. Take a walk around Titchwell, Minsmere, Ramsey, or any of the other 100 or so reserves, then decide if they are not deserving of your membership. The RSPB is a massive organisation and it certainly can't please everybody all the time (and I certainly don't say it can't be criticised), but if anybody has a genuine desire in bird conservation, you can't really think about resigning. Out here in other parts of Europe, I can only dream about the likes of the RSPB appearing.