Eagles breeding period ? (1 Viewer)

[WayuU]

Hi,

I'm curious to know when you think Eagles, south of Alicante in Spain, would breed and for how long?

The area is in a mountain range close to Crevillente and I know they nest there every year but I don't know exactly when and for how long.
I don't know which species it is either but it could be any of these four:
Aquila fasciata
Aquila adalberti
Aquila pennata
Aguililla calzada

I have seen them on a distance several times, a couple hunting, but have got no photos. The plumage of the wings was very dark except for the bend of wing + lesser wing-coverts (and lesser under w-c) and probably median wing-coverts (and greater under w-c) (but not secondary coverts) where white or whitish in color. I don't remember the body or tail, sorry.

I want to plan a trip with my photography gear and take a bunch of photos at such time from the mountain top as this would be the easiest time to get good photos of them and their young.

Any help on this is very much appreciated.

 

[Ian Pritchard]

You shouldn't be photographing rare birds at their nest site. In the UK you need a special permit to do this.
Ian

 

[Apodemus]

Sorry to sound like a killjoy, but disturbance of eagle species at their nests by photographers is a serious issue in Spain too. They really are very sensitive to disturbance.

Mike

 

[Motmot]

You shouldn't be photographing rare birds at their nest site. In the UK you need a special permit to do this.
Ian

The same happens in Spain.

 

[Mike Price]

Probably migration would be the best time to photograph raptors particually I read that Sierra De Crevillente is used by many raptors on their migration route.

Interestingly there don't appear to be many breeding pairs of Eagle there anyway

Quote from the Costa Blanca birding club website.

"The best that can be said is that the range acts as something of a guideline for migrating birds, especially raptors, as they head north or south on their annual travels. Then the few breeding raptors in the sierra (Currently 3 pairs of Bonelli's Eagles and 2 of Peregrines being the most notable) are stirred into action, as are resident Ravens. "

Regards

Mike Price

 

[WayuU]

I appreciate the concern for them, IMO that is rare, even among animal photographers, but don't worry about that in my case. You could have asked about my credentials first though and the specific circumstances.
I know what I'm doing and you won't find ANYONE at all that takes more into account not to disturb the species I photograph. My concern for not disturbing is always my first priority. Why do you think I'm not posting the specific place this breeding takes place?
This is my life calling. My precautions to disturb are enormous in every situation and at times it takes me several days to get any photos because of this. I don't just walk up close to any animal at all, be it a spider, a wolf, or a bird.

@Mike:
Yes, there are very few Eagles at all in these areas and this pair is one of very few, and they come back each year to the same spot (of course). This is why I have not posted coordinates or specifics about it. I know of the Bonelli's but have seen others as I've posted.

 

[Apodemus]

I appreciate the concern for them, IMO that is rare, even among animal photographers, but don't worry about that in my case. You could have asked about my credentials first though and the specific circumstances.
I know what I'm doing and you won't find ANYONE at all that takes more into account not to disturb the species I photograph. My concern for not disturbing is always my first priority. Why do you think I'm not posting the specific place this breeding takes place?
This is my life calling. My precautions to disturb are enormous in every situation and at times it takes me several days to get any photos because of this. I don't just walk up close to any animal at all, be it a spider, a wolf, or a bird.

@Mike:
Yes, there are very few Eagles at all in these areas and this pair is one of very few, and they come back each year to the same spot (of course). This is why I have not posted coordinates or specifics about it. I know of the Bonelli's but have seen others as I've posted.

It's not a question of your life calling, your credentials or the quality of your preparation. If you're close enough to a nest site to take a photo worth having, you're too close.

 

[MJB]

I appreciate the concern for them, IMO that is rare, even among animal photographers, but don't worry about that in my case. You could have asked about my credentials first though and the specific circumstances.
I know what I'm doing and you won't find ANYONE at all that takes more into account not to disturb the species I photograph. My concern for not disturbing is always my first priority. Why do you think I'm not posting the specific place this breeding takes place?
This is my life calling. My precautions to disturb are enormous in every situation and at times it takes me several days to get any photos because of this. I don't just walk up close to any animal at all, be it a spider, a wolf, or a bird.

WayuU,
We may be old cynics, but it seems to us that you are over-defensive about the comments on your post. Your opening post assumed that everyone reading it automatically would somehow know that you would be the 'rare' (your word) exception. However, the Internet is very widely exploited by those who seek to state opinions that they would not utter face-to-face, or wish to gain unfair advantage.

It it is unfortunately naive for anyone to have suggested, as you have, that it is your wish to photograph eagles in the breeding season, but without making any initial effort to convince the Forum of your credentials or knowledge of the ethics and legal protection.

To then respond to others' criitical posts in a way that somehow puts the responsibility on them for demanding to know your credentials before querying your intentions isn't the best way to obtain the help and assistance you want.

I can only say that I echo the opinion that you shouldn't be near enough to an eagle's nest to obtain good photographs unless you have the necessary permits, but I do hope you are fortunate enough to get good photos away from that site.

By the way, Aquila pennata and Aguililla calzada are the same species...
MJB

 

[Apodemus]

...... but I do hope you are fortunate enough to get good photos away from that site....

I hope so too.

 

[WayuU]

It's not a question of your life calling, your credentials or the quality of your preparation. If you're close enough to a nest site to take a photo worth having, you're too close.

Sad you have to state it so categorically that way. You obviously do not know what you are talking about.
I understand your desire to think you know everything regarding to birds but you have a lot to learn yet.
You assume things and you should NEVER assume thing but instead ask for more information before taking a decision. This is actually one of mankind's major problems, assuming things in every situation.
You are assuming that my distance from them is too close. You haven't even bothered to ask at what distance I will be. Gather facts first, then give advice.

 

[Apodemus]

That's quite funny. Read your own post, especially the part about making assumptions.

Anyway, have a good trip to Spain, it's a wonderful country.

Mike

 

[WayuU]

WayuU,
We may be old cynics, but it seems to us that you are over-defensive about the comments on your post. Your opening post assumed that everyone reading it automatically would somehow know that you would be the 'rare' (your word) exception. However, the Internet is very widely exploited by those who seek to state opinions that they would not utter face-to-face, or wish to gain unfair advantage.

It it is unfortunately naive for anyone to have suggested, as you have, that it is your wish to photograph eagles in the breeding season, but without making any initial effort to convince the Forum of your credentials or knowledge of the ethics and legal protection.

To then respond to others' criitical posts in a way that somehow puts the responsibility on them for demanding to know your credentials before querying your intentions isn't the best way to obtain the help and assistance you want.

I can only say that I echo the opinion that you shouldn't be near enough to an eagle's nest to obtain good photographs unless you have the necessary permits, but I do hope you are fortunate enough to get good photos away from that site.

By the way, Aquila pennata and Aguililla calzada are the same species...
MJB

I am not being over-defensive or anything else you may want to label me with to explain my post. You need to understand that all of us do not have the common social abilities that most others have. My way is to go straight to the point and tell what I think is correct. If people get hurt by my statements that's really not my problem but a psychological issue with the person reading my statement. I never give any derogatory statements to any person in particular so no one person should have to feel personally attacked.
This is my way of interacting both in speech and in text with people and once you get to know me you would understand that there is nothing of aggression or "self-defense" in it.

I did not assume anyone would know about me and the circumstance, but please don't assume anything. Either ask or put it in a way that it does not assume anything of that person.

I did not think I needed to write a biography of me before posting since I was expecting that my signature would hint that I'm not an ordinary everyday tourist photographer out to encroach on anything I want photos of.
Maybe I could have been a bit more detailed on the circumstance and on my lifetime of wildlife photography and on the circumstances that this session will take place.

It's unfortunate that you too have decided on following the masses and also assume the conditions of my photographic session with this Eagle couple.

Thank you though for at least helping in getting me straight on Aquila pennata and Aguililla calzada being the same species. I appreciate that, although I would have appreciated even more getting help on my subject.

As I know how people react on criticism and on me pointing out what they fault in, I don't see how anyone here will care to help me now, or to care to try and understand my personality, and I can't change to be like you (most people) either. Trust me, I've tried to learn the way most of you communicate but I don't understand it and don't see the logics ergo I will never be able to communicate that way. Either you learn how I function or you keep a grudge towards me and don't deal with me. It's all psychology I'm afraid.

Let me clearly state that I don't have any bad feeling towards any of you, I'm just sad you wouldn't help me and in the process help these endangered beauties. Most of these birds are gone from these areas now and not many remain.

OW, and for your info, these birds are nesting around houses. A whole lot of houses (and therefore people, dogs, and other animals) just 30 to 100 meters away from the nests.

 

[turkish van]

Gather facts first, then give advice.

Ok,

How close are you intending on being to the nest?

Why do you need the photos?

Is a photographer more responsible if:
They make a lot of effort to avoid disturbance whilst taking photos at a nest, or
If they realise that any risk of nest disturbance is too much, and so decide not to photograph at all.

 

[turkish van]

Most of these birds are gone from these areas now and not many remain.

Isn't the obvious conclusion here that the remaining birds should endure as little disturbance as possible?

 

[Motmot]

It's simple, get the permits and don't get involved in an endless argument here. The posters are simply concerned about raptors and their nesting sites, me included. Not sure what those birds are, either Bonelli's, Golden, Booted or even Common Buzzards, all of them can be found in the general area and I can't say which one could it be after checking your description. We are dealing with a very sensible situation here, you're not asking where to get good pics of raptors but of their nests and some of those species are very endangered.
Strangely enough you say you don't know where the nests are in your first post and in your last one you know the nests are just 30-100 m from a lot of houses. That info plus some other details you already gave make "not giving coordinates or specifics" almost irrelevant.
Possibly time for the mods to close this thread.

 

[WayuU]

Ok,

How close are you intending on being to the nest?

Why do you need the photos?

Is a photographer more responsible if:
They make a lot of effort to avoid disturbance whilst taking photos at a nest, or
If they realise that any risk of nest disturbance is too much, and so decide not to photograph at all.

I'm intending to be around 200 meters away with my 1000mm lens.

Photos are for raising awareness of the decline of precious fauna and to stop the spread of pesticides in those areas.

About responsibility statement:
Neither one applies. The couple are used to humans as I stated in my last post so it will make no change. I actually don't disturb them at all since I'm even further away than other humans around there.

Thank you for being a person that finally asks instead of just assuming.
Asking questions is the way we learn, unfortunately too few do.

 

[WayuU]

Isn't the obvious conclusion here that the remaining birds should endure as little disturbance as possible?

They are not gone because of humans around here. They are gone because of the pesticides.

 

[WayuU]

It's simple, get the permits and don't get involved in an endless argument here. The posters are simply concerned about raptors and their nesting sites, me included. Not sure what those birds are, either Bonelli's, Golden, Booted or even Common Buzzards, all of them can be found in the general area and I can't say which one could it be after checking your description. We are dealing with a very sensible situation here, you're not asking where to get good pics of raptors but of their nests and some of those species are very endangered.
Strangely enough you say you don't know where the nests are in your first post and in your last one you know the nests are just 30-100 m from a lot of houses. That info plus some other details you already gave make "not giving coordinates or specifics" almost irrelevant.
Possibly time for the mods to close this thread.

No need to repeat the "get the permit" statement. I know of it and that's it.
The posters are not actually just concerned with the Eagles, they are in need to impose their superiority in knowledge because they think that someone with less posts has less knowledge. This may not apply to all of them but it's again a psychologically known fact.
I don't need a permit for this and you just have to trust me on that and believe someone else to know what they are doing instead of just think that there is only black and white answers to this. I cannot go in on why since that would lead anyone reading this to where these birds may be nesting.

I have NOT said anything about not knowing where the nests are, that again is a common misreading of the contents of the factual statements I've made.

It's OK. You feel you need to show power by closing the thread and not keep up an open discussion on these issues, be my guest. It's not my problem to not want or be able to discuss this.

I'll ask my science contacts in Spain about guidance to my questions instead. They are mainly specialists on insects but I'm sure they have the contacts to get me the info. Takes a little longer time and a bit more of a hazel but I'm in no hurry. The end period of the nesting is around May, that much I know anyhow.

I would have thought that people here were more interested in the protection of species than in the need to impose any obvious irrelevant knowledge.

 

[turkish van]

They are not gone because of humans around here. They are gone because of the pesticides.

The reason they are gone is irrelevant to this - it is a question of what happens to the remaining birds.

Anyway, you seem to have utterly convinced yourself that you don't need a permit and won't disturb them. I don't think the worries here have made you think twice (?), so let's hope it goes according to plan.

 

[Apodemus]

I suppose it's pointless to say that 200 metres is MUCH too close. Anyway, as Motmot says, that will all be sorted out when you apply for your licence.

You're quite fond of ascribing psychological motives to the users of this forum which is actually the most interesting part of the thread.