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Female House Finch??? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter bobsofpa
- Start date
shelley810
Well-known member
Wow...
LBJ is best that I got.
The streaking is barely discernable. Doesn't look like any of the female house finches we have up here, they lean more to the grey side of brown. I haven't any other suggestions that fit though.
That's Katy Penland's neck of the woods, perhaps she'll be along in the morning and will be able to help you out better.
shelley
LBJ is best that I got.
The streaking is barely discernable. Doesn't look like any of the female house finches we have up here, they lean more to the grey side of brown. I haven't any other suggestions that fit though.
That's Katy Penland's neck of the woods, perhaps she'll be along in the morning and will be able to help you out better.
shelley
Katy Penland
Well-known member
Well, aside from totally sucking at IDing from photos to begin with 
, juvenile sparrows are killers. But I've gotta agree with Shelley, not a House Finch -- too rufous, wrong "conformation" for lack of a better word, and too small a bill. In fact, it actually looks a bit like a juvie House Sparrow, with what looks on my monitor like a yellowish bill, rufous coloration, whitish wing bar on top of a buffy wing bar... But I don't think I've ever seen a juvie House Sparrow, so am really no more than guessing here. :h?:
, juvenile sparrows are killers. But I've gotta agree with Shelley, not a House Finch -- too rufous, wrong "conformation" for lack of a better word, and too small a bill. In fact, it actually looks a bit like a juvie House Sparrow, with what looks on my monitor like a yellowish bill, rufous coloration, whitish wing bar on top of a buffy wing bar... But I don't think I've ever seen a juvie House Sparrow, so am really no more than guessing here. :h?:
Katy Penland
Well-known member
I don't suppose you have another photo of this bird at a different angle or at a bit higher resolution?
Katy Penland
Well-known member
Thanks for that, Bob. You mind if I forward your photo to some people in Tucson, see what they think?
You can send the photo to anyone that can be of help. If you want I could supply the original full file. I had to reduce it for posting on this forum. If you want it, e-mail me at bob AT bobsheldon.com and I will send it with the reply.
Katy Penland said:
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I can agree with the juvenile. This bird just has that juvenile look. The photo has been sent out to several other sources for review. If any of them come up with anything other than juvenile House Finch I will post it here. The female/juvenile House Finch was my original ID and I questioned it only because the bird seemed to be too dark a brown.
[1QUOTE=Michael W]Looks just like a juvenile House Finch to me too!
Michael[/QUOTE]
[1QUOTE=Michael W]Looks just like a juvenile House Finch to me too!
Michael[/QUOTE]
crispycreme
Well-known member
Is that a hint of blue on the wing? Does anyone have a problem calling this a female Indigo Bunting? Everything else seems to fit - length of tail, smallish bill, light streaking on the breast, paleish throat, and most of all an overall drab brown - typical of the female buntings in general.
crispycreme
Well-known member
Well, Katy sent me the unreduced jpg file (I hope that's ok, Bob?), and after having two of us pore over for a bit, I think it's highly unlikely for this bird to be an Indigo Bunting. I think the hint of blue in the wing is a trick of the light. Also, Sibley's says this about the female bunting: "note warm brownish color, plain face, bi-colored bill, rounded tail with hints of blue..". The bi-colored bill is certainly a feature lacking on Bob's bird.
I don't have any other suggestions other than what was already suggested - an unusual looking female House Finch.
I don't have any other suggestions other than what was already suggested - an unusual looking female House Finch.
Katy had already asked permission to send the photo to you. I gave her permission her to send it to you and anyone else that could help. Thank you for your time and interest. From the responses I have received, the conclusion is a female/juvenile House Finch.
I just got back from a 1 1/2 month trip to the southwest on which I took 6000 plus photos most of which were of birds. I still have a few "unknowns" to go yet. The western birds are a little tough on us Easterners, especially the LBBs.
I just got back from a 1 1/2 month trip to the southwest on which I took 6000 plus photos most of which were of birds. I still have a few "unknowns" to go yet. The western birds are a little tough on us Easterners, especially the LBBs.
crispycreme said:
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Katy Penland
Well-known member
Just got an email from the wife of the other person to whom I'd wanted to send the hi-rez file, only to find out he's off birding in Ecuador, the rat! If HOFI's the consensus, I won't send it to him when he returns unless he's particularly curious. I'm still bothered by that bill and the bird's overall coloring, but...
Count me out of any house finch consensus. As JanJ points out:
1) The bill is the wrong color, it is distinctly yellowish, not grey.
2) The legs appear to be the wrong color too, light with pinkish tones, not dark grey.
Further, there appear to be structural problems:
3) The tail looks a little short for house finch.
4) The primaries for house finch are supposed to protrude past the undertail coverts, and these don't reach the end.
On the other hand, house sparrows are supposed to have yellowish bills, lighter pinkish legs, short tails, and primaries that don't reach the end of the undertail coverts. I'm not thrilled with this, as the plumage colors look more like juvenile purple finch, and it would nice if a house sparrow/finch hybrid like Bubo suggest were possible.
That not being the case, my opinion is that it is much more likely to be a juvenile house sparrow with slightly aberrant or melanistic plumage, than a juvenile house finch with the wrong color bill, wrong color legs, wrong length tail and wrong length primaries. It is also possible that a mildly underexposed photo could contribute to the darkness, with bird being dark edge of variation rather than melanistic.
Juvenile house sparrow for me.
1) The bill is the wrong color, it is distinctly yellowish, not grey.
2) The legs appear to be the wrong color too, light with pinkish tones, not dark grey.
Further, there appear to be structural problems:
3) The tail looks a little short for house finch.
4) The primaries for house finch are supposed to protrude past the undertail coverts, and these don't reach the end.
On the other hand, house sparrows are supposed to have yellowish bills, lighter pinkish legs, short tails, and primaries that don't reach the end of the undertail coverts. I'm not thrilled with this, as the plumage colors look more like juvenile purple finch, and it would nice if a house sparrow/finch hybrid like Bubo suggest were possible.
That not being the case, my opinion is that it is much more likely to be a juvenile house sparrow with slightly aberrant or melanistic plumage, than a juvenile house finch with the wrong color bill, wrong color legs, wrong length tail and wrong length primaries. It is also possible that a mildly underexposed photo could contribute to the darkness, with bird being dark edge of variation rather than melanistic.
Juvenile house sparrow for me.
JANJ
Well-known member
I agree with Thayeri, except I don´t like the streaked underparts, the small looking bill and the (what it seems) brown uppertail coverts. I want a female looking house sparrow to look like this:http://home.earthlink.net/~richditch2/images/housesparrow2.jpg, taken in April, and not a juvenile (I´m not saying that Bobsofpa´s bird is a juvenile). If a house sparrow, it would have to be an aberrant one, as mentioned by Thayeri, then I could consider accepting it as such.
JanJ
JanJ
The subtle streaks bother me too... whatever it is, it is not a archetype of its kind.
I appreciate the very good house sparrow profile, JanJ. Let me offer what I want a female house finch in profile to look like, in return:
http://www.pbase.com/image/30287913
If you get all three photos up and go back and forth between them, I think anyone who is interested can see the illustration of points 3) and 4) from my previous post. Look at the example house finch, and how the primaries project, as well as the longer tail. Then look at the example house sparrow, and the subject bird. To my eye, the relative primary-tail-undertail covert structure of the subject bird looks just like the sparrow, but not like the finch.
I would also note that the subject bird bill is smaller than what we would hope for in a house finch too, as well as the color differences with bill and legs, as well as the higher contrast on the streaks with the finch.
I don't like it, but for me it still adds up to slightly aberrant House Sparrow, I see too many problems with House Finch.
I appreciate the very good house sparrow profile, JanJ. Let me offer what I want a female house finch in profile to look like, in return:
http://www.pbase.com/image/30287913
If you get all three photos up and go back and forth between them, I think anyone who is interested can see the illustration of points 3) and 4) from my previous post. Look at the example house finch, and how the primaries project, as well as the longer tail. Then look at the example house sparrow, and the subject bird. To my eye, the relative primary-tail-undertail covert structure of the subject bird looks just like the sparrow, but not like the finch.
I would also note that the subject bird bill is smaller than what we would hope for in a house finch too, as well as the color differences with bill and legs, as well as the higher contrast on the streaks with the finch.
I don't like it, but for me it still adds up to slightly aberrant House Sparrow, I see too many problems with House Finch.
