Help I.D. Bird of Prey I.D. in Southern California USA (1 Viewer)

[Common Raven]

Hello,
We saw a large bird of prey today in San Joaquin Marsh in Irvine in Southern California. It seemed considerably larger than a Cooper's or Sharp shinned, or red tailed hawk, of which I am more familiar. It seemed closer to a turkey vulture in size.
Their bird list has the following birds of prey:
-Osprey
-White-tailed Kite
-Sharp-shinned Hawk
-Cooper's Hawk
-Red-shouldered Hawk
-Red-tailed Hawk
-Golden Eagle
and under "unusual birds":
Bald Eagle
Swainson's Hawk
Ferruginous Hawk
Rough-legged Hawk
Prairie Falcon
Your help is appreciated!

 

[B Lagopus]

Hello Raven,

Nice adult light morph Ferruginous Hawk!

I know the list for the area says "unusual", but the field marks are all there, there is no doubt (in my opinion). They are big raptors.

 

[tizziec]

Looks like light morph red tailed to me but I am pretty new to this.

 

[B Lagopus]

Here are some light morph adult Ferruginous for comparison. There is variation in the degree of markings, Raven's look it falls in the moderately marked category.

http://www.virtualbirder.com/bkwheeler/print/FE.jpg
http://suttoncenter.org/images/Ferruginous-Hawk-5-21-06Heck.jpg
http://www.greglasley.net/ferruginoushawk.html (shots 4,5,6)

 

[Chris Benesh]

Hi Common Raven,

Are there any other shots of this bird, perhaps showing details of the head better? I can see where B Lagopus is coming from but wonder about whether things are really ruling out Redtail. I'm viewing this through a crummy airport monitor, but the head looks dark to me (ala Red-tail), and I can't convince myself that I'm seeing dark leggings or whether there is just a rather extensive belly mottling.

Chris

 

[Common Raven]

Hi Common Raven,

Are there any other shots of this bird, perhaps showing details of the head better? I can see where B Lagopus is coming from but wonder about whether things are really ruling out Redtail. I'm viewing this through a crummy airport monitor, but the head looks dark to me (ala Red-tail), and I can't convince myself that I'm seeing dark leggings or whether there is just a rather extensive belly mottling.

Chris

Thanks everyone for the help so far. I do have another picture, but not as good, as well as this one in higher resolution. I will post them as soon as I get a chance.

 

[tizziec]

I was looking mostly at the dark tips of the wings and forward markings. It just looks very much like a red tailed I have at my ground feeders every moring, just a bit lighter (admittedly what I am seeing is definately a late juv.)

 

[B Lagopus]

I will be curious to see the higher resolution photo, Raven!

The darkest parts of the body do look to be the legs when I magnify, which is quite strong for Ferruginous and quite bad for R-T. Most interesting are the wings. Long, relatively narrow, pointed, lacking a secondary bulge, light and grayish trailing edge to the secondaries -- and no outer primary barring. Indeed none on the primaries at all except for just a bit of gray on p1-p3. I'm OK with the appearance of a patagial bar from this angle, but not from head on.

If surprises develop on the higher rez photo or the other one, however, I could end up eating my words...

 

[tizziec]

Well B Lagopus just took this WAY over my head LOL I need to either study up or get a translator

I still think the forward markings on the wings scream RTand to methe feet look shadowed but that could just be the pic or my monitor

Here isthe red tailed juv I am basing my comparrison on
http://picasaweb.google.com/tizziec/11406/photo#4993749681162944530

Crap picture i know.

 

[Katy Penland]

If those aren't dark patagials, I'll eat the belly band!

Red-tail for me.

 

[Chris Benesh]

You may be right BL. The images on this airport monitor are laughable, so I won't revisit until I get back home late Monday night. I really can't make out any pertinent detail. Later.

Chris

 

[Common Raven]

You may be right BL. The images on this airport monitor are laughable, so I won't revisit until I get back home late Monday night. I really can't make out any pertinent detail. Later.

Chris

Here are the better resolution photos...

 

[tizziec]

I still say RT

 

[valzuniga]

Really! Come on Raven, why couldn't you have taken a better photo of this bird? Just asking but, is your camera a Nikon?

 

[chubri777]

it's screaming red tail to me

 

[B Lagopus]

Hmmm... I think the glass just went half empty for both alternatives. No pale wing panel on the dorsal surface of the primaries. Required for juvenile Red-tailed, which was I believe is the only possibility with that tail. Nor the pale V on the back. The only adult that would work with the ventral tail coloration would be a Harlan's and their dorsal tail would be light, unlike this bird.

That pale dorsal primary panel is also required for Ferruginous. I'll be pondering whilst I eat my too quick words...

 

[AlexC]

Really! Come on Raven, why couldn't you have taken a better photo of this bird? Just asking but, is your camera a Nikon?

Hope you're kidding - on both accounts, and if so, 3 , but if not, that's not cool! Don't be hatin' on Nikon (he said, with his D70s at hand)! And lighten up on the fella - raptors in flight are not the easiest to capture.

 

[Cornell75]

Here are the better resolution photos...

The dark patagial band ("dash") with the dark "comma" at the base of the primaries says red-tailed hawk. Besides, unless I'm hallucinating, the tail shows some reddish tint on my monitor.

 

[JANJ]

Interesting raptor (and angle) P1 seems to be on the long side for Ferruginous:

http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=63084

along with barred undertail coverts and to much dark on under p-tips, as it looks in the image (the fine tail bars, barring on the secondaries, would match a juvenile Ferruginous, not an adult), strong 'patagial' marking in some adult ferruginous, a little on the strong side for juvenile perhaps, and as mentioned lack of pale patch on upper hand (and primary coverts which is right for Ferruginous, but should be present on Red-tailed)


http://www.biology.ucr.edu/personal/MACphotos/birds3/ferrugFly.html

What about a rufous or dark morph Red-tailed anyway?

JanJ

 

[B Lagopus]

Hi JanJ, I am not understanding the P1 comment, it seems in line, do you mean P10? P10 should be shorter than P9-P6 for both species, and it is.

If it were a Red-tailed, then I think an intermediate rufous morph Western would have the most potential. However, with respect, I think an assertion of adult or juvenile needs to be made first, because making either assertion, leads to problems.

I of course backed off my rash preliminary assertion of definitive Ferruginous from last night with one look at the primary panel in the new photo, looked too dark. However, it is fascinating that we can see three inner primaries that are half and half, white on the inner and barred darker on the outer, like a Ferruginous should have (but not a Red-tailed.) The secondaries are grayish, like a Ferrug should have, and don't bulge out, creating a double problem for R-T.

Still, too dark overall on top... but... when I look at the 9th Ferruginous Hawk in the link you provide (right bird in 3rd row), which is at an angle, most of the white does disappear, and the bird starts to resemble the dorsal view of our subject bird. Since the subject bird is at a more acute angle to the camera -- could that angle in combination with exposure issues explain what happened to our missing primary panel? Note the panel could more easily disappear with a Ferrug where the feathers are half white, than a juvenile RT where the base of the primaries would be all white except for horizontal barring.

Not saying that is what it is, just exploring a bit...