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Where premium quality meets exceptional value. ZEISS Conquest HDX.

How long before a premium Chinese binocular? (1 Viewer)

Is it more about branding than manufacturing? My Panasonic G3 mft camera is made in China but with a Japanese brand name. In the rarefied atmosphere of "Alpha" binoculars it will take several years for a Chinese brand to become an alpha. Its not just about quality but image. About 13 years ago I bought a Skoda Octavia rather than the Volkswagen Golf, engineering wise virtually the same but lacking any kudos. Why do so many people buy Swarovski? Its about self esteem (Maslow) and owning the perceived "top brand".
 
Frank and Bob, your country would be dull one if all carried the same opinion; particularly if that opinion was the one of the dullest :t:
 
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Nationally, there are about 4000 Wal-Mart stores in the states along with about 600 Sam's Clubs. Although some people, uncongenially, describe them as "Chinese Outlet Stores" it argues, I think, more for Pro-Chinese sentiment than anti.

Bob

Ok, head over to 24hourcampfire and ask about needing a good Chinese binocular. Let me know how that goes....

;)

..but I do agree with you in a round-about way. I think it is more of an issue that most folks just don't care where their product is manufactured as long as it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
 
Ok, head over to 24hourcampfire and ask about needing a good Chinese binocular. Let me know how that goes....

;)

Well, Frank beat me to that one ;). That would be the Hunting Optics forum. Yes, today it is mostly about branding, particularly in high end binoculars. It's like everybody thinks the Germans/Austrians have some sort of magic pixie dust that only they have and know how to use. Look at the affection for "Schott Glass", like only Schott can use just the right amount of the pixie dust in its glass making. Hang the fact Schott has factories all over the world, including China.
 
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Name 5 Chinese products that are the best. What electronic goods are the Koreans world class in?

In the Cellular phone world, the arguably best phones currently are the Samsung Galaxy S3 and the Apple iPhone. Samsung is a Korean company and the iPhones are made in China. Obviously, Apple has implemented high quality control and the design and innovation are done at their office in California.

Innovation aside, I think it's the quality control that keeps the Chinese products from being able to have a premium product. In a lot of the factories, "cheap" labor is used. When that's the case, you're just not going to have the highly trained engineers or people with the necessary experience and technical expertise to deliver a super high quality product. Corners are cut to keep prices down...and some people are ok with that if they still perceive a good "value."

No offense meant to any companies. These are just my own personal thoughts and observations.
 
Trust is earned!

The Chinese will built the premium bin from the moment they can convince the public that they buy A stuff material.
It's the trust that makes the three alpha's a premium brand.
Seen it that light, I wonder why Zeiss downgrades to a few hundred dollar bin level.
Their market share is on the Conquest level and they downsize to a Terra level, both being made by the Chinese/Japanese.
It is succesfull because of the logo. The trust!
Jan
 
I've tried a number of Chinese bins, and QC is definitely an issue, though mostly in terms of mechanical problems rather than optical ones, which brings me to the second area that ChinBins are not yet up to snuff, and that's in mechanics.

I mentioned this on my original "Haute Chinese" thread on CN. The example I used was the Oberwerk 15x70, which sold for $149. The optics were quite decent for stargazing, but the mechanics were really cheap. The right diopter was off, it was supposed to have 4 diopters range, but I couldn't get it to focus, and when I turned it a bit further, the eyecup assembly came apart in my hands. Under the rubber eyecup covering I found a cardboard tube frame!

Also, like my first pair, the second 15x70 arrived out of collimation. The spring seated prism were easily knocked out of collimation. Oberwerk has an entire Webpage dedicated to teaching you how to collimate their binoculars, since they frequently need tweaking.

I purchased the original Obie 15x70 in 1999, and the 2003 model was improved optically, better coatings and less CA, but mechanically, they seemed to be the same. So that's why I called for Haute Chinese. They were already getting better optically, but mechanically, they left a lot to be desired. The newer heavy duty version 15x70 they sell is more robust, but it has IF EPs, so it's not that practical for terrestrial use.

Optically, I think China could produce an alpha killer, but mechanically, they have a long way to go. They need to use better materials, as Jan said, and have more robust construction to increase their quality.

Although said indelicately by dennis, China's focus is on turning out high volume goods. They have the manpower and the lower wages, so they can create giant assembly lines and knock out more bins in a month than the alphas could in a year. So what are they are the best at? Right now, they are the best at turning out volumes of whatever low cost consumer items people are buying, from toothpaste to electronics to optics.

No doubt, China and the Pacific Rim will have the corner on this market for years to come. However, as wages rise and more European and US companies make their goods in China, eventually, I think we will see better quality products and more niche market products.

While it's true that China's culture is different than Japan's, business is business. If a company wants to make higher quality goods, and it's too costly to make them in Europe and turn a good profit (it costs 15% more to make the same product in Europe than it does in the US because of the difference in energy costs - America's abundant natural gas is not tied to the world oil market like Russia's is, and that where most of Europe buys its natural gas from - Russia - and oil prices are also higher in Europe than in the US).

Add to the higher energy costs higher labor and material costs, and I'm surprised that we haven't seen the mass exodus of manufacturing in Europe the way we have in the US. Could be the governments have done a better job of keeping plants in Europe rather than incentivizing manufacturers to go offshore, as they have in the US.

So I think we will see the second step happen in China like we did in Japan where there was a change toward producing higher quality goods and niche market products, but due to the sheer manpower, I think mass market products will continue to dominate China's output.

<B>
 
"It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good."

Is it that scene?
That's the one I was thinking of.

One nice little irony I read somewhere is that as Chinese manufacturers tried to produce more upmarket brands of cigarettes for their own consumers they found folks wouldn't buy them because in double quick time the market became flooded with fakes of lower quality than the "safer" mid-price brands.
 
From the past…

Check page 45 onwards at http://books.google.se/books?id=OJr...BMAw#v=onepage&q=field flattener lens&f=false

It seems field flatteners were used already in 1873…


Another old open frame/hinge solution
http://www.pbase.com/g_hawkins/image/88394173

So what is new ? ;)

Anders

Nikon was probably the first of the current leading binocular companies to use field flatteners extensively in their 8 x 42 and 10 x 42 LX and HG binoculars. It seems that about that time "Rolling Ball" became an issue with people who used them.

Bob
 
Have you heard of Samsung? Their electronics are everywhere, in TV screens and TVs (not necessarily Samsung branded), computers, games consoles and so on, as well as in their own consumer goods. Have you heard of LG? They too make electronics and consumer goods.

And of course:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&v=9bZkp7q19f0

Anyone who underestimates Korea, or China, may find the future unsettling. |=)|
I said Chinese. Samsung is Korean.
 
Nikon was probably the first of the current leading binocular companies to use field flatteners extensively in their 8 x 42 and 10 x 42 LX and HG binoculars. It seems that about that time "Rolling Ball" became an issue with people who used them.

Bob

The 10x42 SE preceded the full sized LXs by two years and no Rolling Ball. Not even a Rolling Stone.

<B>
 
I said Chinese. Samsung is Korean.

Clearly you forget what you write.

You said "Name 5 Chinese products that are the best. What electronic goods are the Koreans world class in?"

No-one said anything about Chinese products being the best, so that can be ignored. I answered the second question.

But to partially answer the first question, Chinese torches (flashlights in American-land) are the best in the world, and are far cheaper than any competing product. I've used several for cross country running at night, and they are superb, with beautiful engineering. Surefire simply do not compete when it comes to high power lights using AA cells. Chinese tea is arguably the best in the world, although most of what is sold in the West is low grade. The iPod and iPad are made in China, and are arguably the best in the world. Goodness knows how many other goods are made in China, although you might not have realised that, and I could just go through a list. My Pure radio is made in China. That is just one example that is within a few meters of my PC.
 
Clearly you forget what you write.

You said "Name 5 Chinese products that are the best. What electronic goods are the Koreans world class in?"

No-one said anything about Chinese products being the best, so that can be ignored. I answered the second question.

But to partially answer the first question, Chinese torches (flashlights in American-land) are the best in the world, and are far cheaper than any competing product. I've used several for cross country running at night, and they are superb, with beautiful engineering. Surefire simply do not compete when it comes to high power lights using AA cells. Chinese tea is arguably the best in the world, although most of what is sold in the West is low grade. The iPod and iPad are made in China, and are arguably the best in the world. Goodness knows how many other goods are made in China, although you might not have realised that, and I could just go through a list. My Pure radio is made in China. That is just one example that is within a few meters of my PC.
Alot of stuff is MADE in China but the brain power and engineering comes from the USA for the Ipad. The Ipad and Ipod are are designed by Apple in California. That's where the brains for the Ipad are located. Not in China. The only thing that happens in China with the Ipad is a bunch of $2.00 an hour drones put them together doing something that anybody off the street could do. It doesn't take a mental giant to design a torch either like it does to design an operating system for an Ipad . The technology comes from the USA and the low payed labor is supplied by China on alot of things.
 
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