ID help - Poland/Ukraine border, Carpathians (1 Viewer)

[hennig]

Greetings! A friend of mine is in need of assistance identifying two birds captured in blurry photos. Your help in this matter is greatly appreciated in advance!

 

[tconzemi]

first one looks cucooish, but could be a warbler, second on gives Sparrowhawk vibes, but could be an Ostrich too

 

[Butty]

We all agree with Tom 👍🏼. Ish.

 

[01101001]

1. Barn Owl (of the grimier Central European race)? Is the habitat right (abandoned dwellings in the area)?
2. I defer to the judgment of others.

EDIT: pure ssp. guttata is even darker:

Dark-breasted Barn Owl — Historical Rare Birds

Tyto alba guttata (Brehm, CL, 1831) (1, 1)

www.historicalrarebirds.info

 

[01101001]

I'll use a screenshot of the first photo to illustrate my point if I'm allowed to. Apologies for my drawing skills (this picture only needs a smile to make it complete). From what I understand, there is no more general information about the habitat?

 

[Jos Stratford]

I'll use a screenshot of the first photo to illustrate my point if I'm allowed to. Apologies for my drawing skills (this picture only needs a smile to make it complete). From what I understand, there are no more general information about the habitat?

This bird could potentially be an owl as highlighted in your outline, quite convincing illustration. However, if you squint again, your left 'eye' could be a bill slightly raised in and then it absolutely doesn't look like an owl

I'll go with the identifiable theory on this one 👍

 

[01101001]

The original picture after some Lightroom editing, although the face is still obscured, makes the rest looks better.

 

[hennig]

I'll use a screenshot of the first photo to illustrate my point if I'm allowed to. Apologies for my drawing skills (this picture only needs a smile to make it complete). From what I understand, there are no more general information about the habitat?

Thanks for your suggestions! I'll try to get more info, it's not my observation.

 

[Jos Stratford]

The original picture after some Lightroom editing (the face is still obscured as mentioned above, but the rest looks better):

Still looks like a passerine

 

[Jos Stratford]

Still looks like a passerine

And given that Merlin gives best matches as either an owl, a crane, a hawk or a hummingbird, I think we can safely say it has no idea 😀

 

[01101001]

Thanks for your suggestions! I'll try to get more info, it's not my observation.

Also, let me know if I can post the pictures after some editing in Lightroom because I didn't ask about it earlier.

 

[pianoman]

I see the reason for thinking Barn Owl, however the problem is that Barn Owl's face is always lighter, not darker, than the rest of the head.

 

[hennig]

Also, let me know if I can post the pictures after some editing in Lightroom because I didn't ask about it earlier

Yes, sure. No problem.

 

[01101001]

I see the reason for thinking Barn Owl, however the problem is that Barn Owl's face is always lighter, not darker, than the rest of the head.

It depends on the age and subspecies, apparently (here, a juvenile from Pennsylvania):

https://flic.kr/p/f7Vw3F

Don't know about guttata.

EDIT: reported as a juvenile (from western Slovakia):

ML204399551 - Barn Owl (Eurasian) - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML204399551; © Stanislav Harvančík; Trenciansky kraj, Slovakia

macaulaylibrary.org

if the OP's bird has fledged some time ago (probably, at this time of the year), that could also be the reason why it roosts in a conifer and has no better hideout of its own

not too many photos of guttata on the internet; BF has just one picture overall (Barn Owl (guttata sp.))

the border between guttata and alba:

Western Barn Owl (Tyto alba) :: xeno-canto

xeno-canto.org

the extralimital alba in NE Poland is probably an error (no comments about ssp. ID together with 'Animal seen?' field marked unknown)

BIR025-00354 - Joel Sartore

A fledgling European barn owl (Tyto alba guttata) from the Plzen Zoo in the Czech Republic.

www.joelsartore.com

Tyto alba (Western Barn Owl) - Image | BioLib.cz

 

[Butty]

Hate to say it, and no harm trying (etc, etc), but... I really don't care what Merlin thinks about a photo. Its results may be interesting, thought-provoking and even entertaining, but it is of no comparison whatsoever with the expertise of experienced/knowledgeable birders - particularly so where there's something weird (eg rubbish quality, as here - no offence) about the subject photo - it takes a human to think around that and to make appropriate allowances and caveats.
I use AI a lot for ID (not for birds), and it definitely has its uses - but I'm happy that it's (so far) never better than, nor anywhere near as good as, a non-artificial expert.

 

[01101001]

My initial impression was a woodpecker of some sort (clean white belly); then (after zooming in and looking more carefully), I thought Barn Owl. I didn't source my ID from Merlin--that was more of an exercise in (unsuccessfully) trying to shore up my position.

(In the majority of cases, I only turn to Merlin Photo ID first thing when I don't know a given region and its birds. Not being much of a photographer myself, I reserve it for forum use.)

 

[Butty]

more of an exercise in (unsuccessfully) trying to shore up my point

That's my point: it doesn't and couldn't - or not in the face of alternative views from experts in field-birding and interpreting photos (in whose ranks I am not - though I do think it's not a barn owl). (NB None of this is to say that it's definitely not a barn owl!)

 

[01101001]

Yes, you're right (in this case, it was tempting for me to check when no other ID was suggested, but I probably should've left the result to myself).

 

[01101001]

What if the face isn't that dark, only obscured by twigs? What made me think Barn Owl was (1) silhouette, (2) almost all white, (3) roughly heart-shaped facial disc, (4) no idea what else it could be (some other owl)?

And how about Ural Owl? One of two most frequently seen owls in the Carpathians (apart from Tawny Owl) as per The birds of Polish Carpathians -- status, threats, conservation? That's the best other candidate I can think of, anyway.

ML106598431 - Ural Owl - Macaulay Library

Macaulay Library ML106598431; © Pavel Parkhaev; Novosibirsk Oblast, Russia

macaulaylibrary.org

EDIT: part of the face on the left-hand side is ovrexposed, which distorts the shape of the facial disc

 

[Butty]

roughly heart-shaped facial disc

I don't see anything that I would think of calling a facial disc. I don't find it has either the posture or the structure of an owl: it seems to have a moderate-length tail and to be leaning forward; owls don't have/do either - well, hawk owls - ish - but the head shape's wrong. It's perfectly plausibly a passerine. I fear you're trying way too hard - and that Tom C had it right at the outset, viz. there just isn't enough here to get anywhere.