Id please the first female duck is tufted duck or greater scaup? (1 Viewer)

[Somkiat]

 

[Larry Sweetland]

It's a Tufted Duck. Location always helpful (often critical) when asking for an ID

 

[KC Foggin]

First looks to be a female Tufted Duck.

 

[Alexander Stöhr]

Hello,

just a question about the right bird: I have looked at it several times on different screens now and I see:

• a slightly purple sheen to the brown colouration
• dark brown back is nearly black
• eye seems colourless=with less yellow (but also darker than the other two Ducks)
• a square-rounded head without a tuft
• an indication of the right s-shaped high reared flank-line
• a sharp demarcation line between darker breast and paler breast
• yes and speckled white undertail-coverts
• it seems a smaller bird in relation to the other two Ducks, but its facing slightly away. So a foreshortening effect surely adds to this feeling

Yes, every mentioned feature is within variation for a pure Tufted Duck and surely whishful thinking, but, yes, I think, it might be Ferruginous x Tufted Duck hybrid.
I have seen a similar bird many years ago, and as it had a smaller, squarer white patch on the belly than an ID-book Tufted Duck, I identified it as a Ferruginous x Tufted Duck hybrid then. Therefore, I hope for others to take a closer look at this picture again, as the bird is easily missed:


Because the left bird seems also interesting to me:
I hope this doesnt come out as an offense, as I was distracted by the asked for left bird. Yes, it might well be a Tufted Duck (= I havent confident arguements against this), but I see

• a bulky and larger bird (yes size illusion, the far bird is larger and the nearer one smaller)
• the right, evenly curved flank-line (I posted this before: Club300 Germany)

Yes, I see a bump at the rear head too. And yes, I see the relative small head and the lack of a larger, spatulate bill, too. But this is within variation for a Greater Scaup and the bump looks strange positioned for a Tufted Duck (is Lesser Scaup a possibility in Indonesia, the presumed location?)

I hope this doesnt come out as an offense, as experienced members have identified it as a Tufted Duck, but as you know, I am interested in ID-topics: I hope for more pictures and the location. And yes, if forced I woud say its a Tufted Duck, too (and when I write I am biased by other comments I should better write: I learn a lot here, thanks!)

 

[stevethehydra]

I see what you mean Alexander. If both these female birds are Tufted Ducks, then they are right at the two extremes of variation within the species on several characters. I keep looking at this photo and going back and forth between seeing a pair of "normal" Tufties and a possible Scaup or hybrid on the left, and a pair of "normal" Tufties and a possible Ferruginous hybrid on the right.

Some photos of Tufted x Ferruginous hybrids here: Ferruginous Duck x Tufted Duck (mostly males, the females shown look darker than this bird, but hybrids are variable...)

While Aythya hybrids are a lot commoner than most others, it seems pretty unlikely that both these birds are hybrids (or a vagrant and a hybrid). Location would be helpful in determining which of Scaup x Tufted or Ferruginous x Tufted is more likely! It may still be that two contrasting "extreme" female Tufties is the statistically likelier option though...

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

I see what you mean Alexander. If both these female birds are Tufted Ducks, then they are right at the two extremes of variation within the species on several characters. I keep looking at this photo and going back and forth between seeing a pair of "normal" Tufties and a possible Scaup or hybrid on the left, and a pair of "normal" Tufties and a possible Ferruginous hybrid on the right.

Some photos of Tufted x Ferruginous hybrids here: Ferruginous Duck x Tufted Duck (mostly males, the females shown look darker than this bird, but hybrids are variable...)

While Aythya hybrids are a lot commoner than most others, it seems pretty unlikely that both these birds are hybrids (or a vagrant and a hybrid). Location would be helpful in determining which of Scaup x Tufted or Ferruginous x Tufted is more likely! It may still be that two contrasting "extreme" female Tufties is the statistically likelier option though...

Steve/Alexander, the location is Bung Boraphet, Nakhon Sawan in C Thailand Log in to Facebook Greater Scaup is an accidental to Thailand (2 records as of 2018).

Grahame