Inmature Redstart? (1 Viewer)

[JLRamos]

Hello everyone

Today in Guadalajara (Spain) I observed this bird that I believe is a redstart. Could it be an immature male?

The greyish tone of the throat and shoulders (scapulars?) is a beginning of adult plumage.

Thanks in advance.

 

[KenM]

It’s certainly a male, age of which I’m unsure however, I’m thinking it might be a 2nd year bird?

Cheers

 

[JLRamos]

I very much appreciate your response.

 

[Simon G]

It’s certainly a male, age of which I’m unsure however, I’m thinking it might be a 2nd year bird?

Cheers

Why 2nd year and not 1st, Ken?

 

[KenM]

Why 2nd year and not 1st, Ken?

I’m not too hot on ageing (personally and avian 🤣) however, I had an all grey bird in the garden early September a few years back and I was assured that it was a 1st year bird (hatch year). This bird looks somewhat more advanced than that Simon?

 

[Butty]

I had an all grey bird in the garden early Sept

Sounds like juvenile or 1st-year male or adult female black redstart - if so, no useful lessons to be learnt there - their plumage sequences differ.

 

[KenM]

Sounds like juvenile or 1st-year male or adult female black redstart - if so, no useful lessons to be learnt there - their plumage sequences differ.

Certainly not a Black Redstart….

 

[Simon G]

The bird shown in the OP's photos corresponds quite well with the description and image of a 1st winter male Common Redstart in Collins (Svensson et al).

I don't see many redstarts, but I have seen autumn males with variously obscured head markings and some that are hardly distinguishable to my eye from spring males (at least in the brief glimpses they tend to give). The field guides I have are not particularly consistent on this matter.

 

[KenM]

I’d be very interested to know as to when male Common Redstarts achieve “full” breeding plumage, as I’ve seen presumed 2nd calendar year Cyprus birds in April, with a “mostly”adult head and “tan uppers”.
Don’t know if this suggests 2 years or more, for full attainment?

 

[Butty]

Certainly not a Black Redstart

Ah - not 'all grey' at all then.

when male Common Redstarts achieve “full” breeding plumage

http://blascozumeta.com/specie_files/11220_Phoenicurus_phoenicurus_E.pdf

 

[KenM]

Ah - not 'all grey' at all then.

What colour would you call this?

 

[Richard Prior]

It’s ‘in the buff’ Ken! Well, underparts are. The upperparts, let’s go for grey/brown ( I wonder if Dulux are still recruiting for paint colour naming executives ).

 

[Simon G]

I’m not too hot on ageing (personally and avian 🤣) however, I had an all grey bird in the garden early September a few years back and I was assured that it was a 1st year bird (hatch year). This bird looks somewhat more advanced than that Simon?

I remembered I have an id paper from Species Files – Guia Blasco Zumeta de Aves

As far as I can see it doesn't mention 2nd year birds after spring, from which I infer they are indistinguishable after the complete postbreeding moult.

OP's bird still looks like a 1cy male to me.

 

[KenM]

It’s ‘in the buff’ Ken! Well, underparts are. The upperparts, let’s go for grey/brown ( I wonder if Dulux are still recruiting for paint colour naming executives ).

It’s ‘in the buff’ Ken! Well, underparts are. The upperparts, let’s go for grey/brown ( I wonder if Dulux are still recruiting for paint colour naming executives ).

To my eye Richard, the upperpart colour is a concolourous grey, unfortunately it didn’t profile itself for “the camera” but it did to my eyes.
I never noted any buff to the upperparts when it was less than a metre from the window….try specsavers.😉

 

[Butty]

I never noted any buff to the upperparts ….try specsavers

Please don't suggest that people have said things that they haven't said. It's bad form and disrespectful.

 

[KenM]

Please don't suggest that people have said things that they haven't said. It's bad form and disrespectful.

Depends on the relationship that one has with the recipient….in your case it might be different.😮

 

[Richard Prior]

So as we have an ‘International special relationship’ I can safely call you a dopey twerp for not reading my post carefully enough Ken: « It’s ‘in the buff’ Ken! Well, underparts are ». To spell it out without my attempted humour, on your bird the underparts look off white with buffish-brown flanks, upperparts grey/brown.
I think that the OP photos are of a 1st winter male, buffish fringed greater coverts and incomplete supercilium would suggest that.
Have a good Monday All.

 

[JLRamos]

Thanks to everyone for the answers and supporting documentation.

 

[KenM]

So as we have an ‘International special relationship’ I can safely call you a dopey twerp for not reading my post carefully enough Ken: « It’s ‘in the buff’ Ken! Well, underparts are ». To spell it out without my attempted humour, on your bird the underparts look off white with buffish-brown flanks, upperparts grey/brown.
I think that the OP photos are of a 1st winter male, buffish fringed greater coverts and incomplete supercilium would suggest that.
Have a good Monday All.

Richard, my understanding of “in the buff” refers to being naked? (don’t know if our non-English contributors would understand this?)
I was referring to the bird’s “uppers” not it’s “unders”.
Regarding the ageing of Redstarts!
I can only comment on what I’ve seen.
On a single occasion in Shropshire many years ago, I witnessed, what looked like an immature male Redstart assisting an adult female with the feeding of juveniles that were dispersed amongst the ferns on the ground!
Make of that as you will….left me somewhat perplexed😮
Don’t think they’re double brooded oop North?, so was it a 2nd calendar year unmated bird from the previous year helping out……I don’t know…..and never will.😮

 

[Butty]

Richard, my understanding of “in the buff” refers to being naked? (don’t know if our non-English contributors would understand this?)
I was referring to the bird’s “uppers” not it’s “unders”.

Maybe, in the World-of-Ken, this is how one a) acknowledges that one has publicly misrepresented someone's words and b) apologizes for it.

what looked like an immature male Redstart assisting an adult female with the feeding of juveniles

Take the simplest explanation: that (as is common in black redstart) it was a 1-year-old breeding in immature plumage. No mystery.
But... Salop? 'North'?! 🤣 - the view of the UK from London...