Is a good view predictable? (1 Viewer)

[Jaywalk]

I like alpha glass but I've come to understand that my real preference is for a really good view. Can I know before buying whether any given set of bins has a great view, perhaps from just knowing eye relief or some other factor?

Six years ago I bought a pair of Zeiss 8x42 Victory SF with, IIRC, 18mm eye relief, and could not get a view without blackouts (or possibly other issues). I phoned either Zeiss or the retailer about the issue and they sent me a replacement set of eyepieces, longer by 3mm, that had three clicks. These are perfect; middle position with eyeglasses, fully out without eyeglasses. They are perfect for me, weight aside.

I don't insist on the next bins being Zeiss, but for simplicity's sake, shall I assume that in my next lighter-weight Zeiss bins that 18mm eye relief won't work for me and will have to be compensated for in some way? Can I know in advance if the next set of bins will have a "great view?" Can I also assume that 18mm eye relief in some other brand equally won't work for me?

The Zeiss SF and the Nikon 8x32 Superior E both work fine for me. A 15-year-old set of Minox roofs works okay, while a Leupold Yosemite 6x30 (similar to Kowa YF) works a little less well.

Also, I don't really understand the "view" terminology I see discussed, e.g. "great view," "fully immersive," possibly "disappearing" binoculars, etc. Perhaps as a start someone can explain them, please? I think I understand the issue but it's best to be sure.

 

[wllmspd]

The immersive comment is usually for views with very large apparent field of view where the black edge of the field is less noticable. You need to get to around 70degree apparent field for this to kick-in, so Nikon 8x30E2, NL Pure, old porros. The porro designs also tend to give better “3D” as the objectives are further apart that can help, but can lead to “cardboard effect” if too strong that looks odd. If the edge of the field if too blurry or the view distorts alarmingly as you pan, these can also detract from the view. Ideally you just want to feel that you are 8x closer to what you’re looking at without the binocular “making its presence felt”.

The need for extra eyecups seems to have been a design error on zeiss part as other brands have eyecups with greater length and thus should work out the box without issue.

Peter

 

[Binastro]

No.

Regards,
B.

 

[MiddleRiver]

Obvious but excellent question. Aside from the fact that everyone's anatomy is different, there do seem to be bins that have a bigger/better/easier/etc. eyebox/view/fill-in-the-blank. In simpler terms, some you put up to your eyes and forget about them. Others you adjust and tweak, and notice the flaws, and fret. I've yet to figure out whether it's eyepiece diameter, eye-relief, FOV, field curvature,... a combination of all the above, or what.
Try before you buy :-/

 

[Hermann]

No.

Strongly seconded.

Hermann

 

[Ratal]

Strongly seconded.

Hermann

STRONGLY thirded

 

[Maljunulo]

No, buying by specs is just as likely as not to get you a binocular you will neither like nor use.

To say nothing of the fact that only you know what constitutes a “good view” to you.

You can read spec sheets and reviews until your eyeballs fall out, and you still won’t know until your first look.

 

[Jaywalk]

The need for extra eyecups seems to have been a design error on zeiss part as other brands have eyecups with greater length and thus should work out the box without issue.

Thank you. I was not aware and have been wondering if I need to ensure replacement eyecups are available. It's good to know it isn't necessary.

 

[quincy88]

A good view is maybe not predictable, but it is researchable. This forum is a good resource for user testimonials. Unfortunately, whether or not a pair of binoculars works for you will have to be determined empirically I think.

Also, I don't really understand the "view" terminology I see discussed, e.g. "great view," "fully immersive," possibly "disappearing" binoculars, etc. Perhaps as a start someone can explain them, please? I think I understand the issue but it's best to be sure.

These are all subjective, qualitative terms that are commonly used on this forum. When someone is describing the "view" they are describing what they see through their binoculars. That view will be described in a million different ways. It is where we use descriptive, sometimes fanciful, language to try to explain what we are seeing.

Here is a ridiculous quote that I posted on another thread a few months ago describing a pair of Leica 8x50 Trinovid BNs:
A standout is the oddball 8x50s, which provide the most beautiful view of any pair of binoculars I have used - Leica vision cranked up to 11.

So, I'm talking about a couple of things here that I hoped other Leica users would understand. Leicas have, in my opinion, the most "beautiful" view. They are bright with saturated colors. The views as I see them through Leicas have a sparkling, exaggerated quality that really appeals to me. The fields are a bit more classic in their distortion meaning that that the field edges are focused at a different point than the field center - I'm sure another member can describe distortions in a lot more detail than I can. When I say "Leica vision cranked up to 11," I'm saying that those qualities are more exaggerated in the 8x50s than other Leicas I have used.

When I say binoculars "disappear" or have a particularly "transparent view," what I mean is that the view has a neutral quality to it. The colors are faithfully reproduced - meaning that there is not a noticeable bias towards one part of the spectrum. Binoculars will need to be bright to disappear. Binoculars will need a sharp focus to disappear. When I'm using that language, I am trying to say that the view through the binocular appears as if I am not looking through them at all. As if I am observing something with my naked eyes from 1/8 or 1/10 the distance. The newer, flatter, wider field binoculars do this for me.

It can be confusing. Try to take clues from the context. And feel free to ask if something is confusing. People here love talking binoculars, so most people will elaborate when asked.

 

[Jaywalk]

That's a good explanation. Thank you.

 

[MiddleRiver]

...Here is a ridiculous quote that I posted on another thread a few months ago describing a pair of Leica 8x50 Trinovid BNs:
A standout is the oddball 8x50s, which provide the most beautiful view of any pair of binoculars I have used - Leica vision cranked up to 11....

 

[tehri]

I am trying to say that the view through the binocular appears as if I am not looking through them at all. As if I am observing something with my naked eyes from 1/8 or 1/10 the distance. The newer, flatter, wider field binoculars do this for me.

It's always interesting when people love these optical instruments, binoculars, to hear them describe their sensations, their feelings.
Without wanting to contradict at all what you are saying there, Quincy , the sensation perceived is for me completely different... Vision through good binoculars has nothing to do with vision with my naked eye.
The vision, the look I have on anything, rocks, tree trunks, moss, plumage, fur, grass, etc etc, is just like super enhanced... it literally transcends vision with the naked eye, it's something else.
I don't know but I suppose that some have already experienced certain psychotropic drugs... If I took a metaphor here, I would happily say that just like psilocybin provides, vision through the highest quality optics is super ++ enhanced... Everything is at a very high level of visual perception !... Not just the magnification, but the whole visual perception !... With perfect light, it's often spectacular for the brain, lol !!!
From there to saying that Swaro or Leica are real drug dealers, there is only one step !!! 🤪

 

[Maljunulo]

Before the conversation wandered off into he weeds, the question was (in essence) “Can you predict, from specifications, which binocular will have a “good view”.

The answer was a pretty clear “no” yet here we are, going on as if the answer wasn’t given long ago.

I will repeat my “no” response, and add that if we can’t even define it, how can anything on a spec sheet predict it?

 

[MiddleRiver]

Before the conversation wandered off into he weeds, the question was (in essence) “Can you predict, from specifications, which binocular will have a “good view”.

The answer was a pretty clear “no” yet here we are, going on as if the answer wasn’t given long ago.

I will repeat my “no” response, and add that if we can’t even define it, how can anything on a spec sheet predict it?

Are you saying that retail price $ is NOT and indicator? If I paid $3k for my bins, you can bet they're the BESTEST!! 😆

 

[dries1]

If the spec sheets were always correct regarding eye relief, one who wears glasses would never have questions. Additionally eye cup contouring, diameter contribute as well.
So no.

 

[Jaywalk]

As the OP, I'm delighted to learn from others what a "good view" means to them.

 

[Binastro]

If you paid $10K for a binocular it does not mean the view will be suitable for you.

The cost of a binocular is little indication of whether the view is good for someone.

I have 10x25 Swarovski and Leica and the view is bl--dy awful in each for me.
I use the 10x25 worn out Docter.
Also a Nikon or Minolta 10x25 is better for me.

The same with some larger binoculars.

I repeat.
The answer to the question is no.

Regards,
B.

 

[quincy88]

Haha. Exactly. I thought of that conversation while I was writing up my explanation.

It's always interesting when people love these optical instruments, binoculars, to hear them describe their sensations, their feelings.
Without wanting to contradict at all what you are saying there, Quincy , the sensation perceived is for me completely different... Vision through good binoculars has nothing to do with vision with my naked eye.
The vision, the look I have on anything, rocks, tree trunks, moss, plumage, fur, grass, etc etc, is just like super enhanced... it literally transcends vision with the naked eye, it's something else.
I don't know but I suppose that some have already experienced certain psychotropic drugs... If I took a metaphor here, I would happily say that just like psilocybin provides, vision through the highest quality optics is super ++ enhanced... Everything is at a very high level of visual perception !... Not just the magnification, but the whole visual perception !... With perfect light, it's often spectacular for the brain, lol !!!
From there to saying that Swaro or Leica are real drug dealers, there is only one step !!! 🤪

I know what you mean. Leicas in particular are "super ++ enhanced" to my eye. I'm not always wanting my binoculars to disappear according to my previous description.
Swarovskis have a pretty clinical and transparent view to my eye. Much more "transparent" or "disappearing." I do like them a lot, and their technical proficiency is probably unmatched. But they still aren't my favorite.

 

[Bentley03]

As the OP, I'm delighted to learn from others what a "good view" means to them.

I believe the question should probably have been more along the lines of can you predict if a binocular will fit you or not. If it doesn't fit, the optics will be unable to reveal their qualities to the full for you. Spec sheets obviously give you an indication, as do reviews and forum musings, but only when you try a pair of binoculars for yourself will you discover if they fit and, therefore, give you a good view (or the best that they can).

I wouldn't dream of buying a pair of shoes without first trying them on to see if they fit me properly, nor trousers...

 

[Jaywalk]

I believe the question should probably have been more along the lines of can you predict if a binocular will fit you or not.

I think that would have been been a good way to phrase it.

As I mentioned in the OP I don't insist on either alpha glass or Zeiss, but I tend to start there because of the "Wow!" I experienced decades ago with Zeiss and a "Meh..." with Swarovski. The Nikon Superior E moved me off of Euro-only glass, so I then posted the OP.

The short "no" answers to my questions were definitive but not particularly helpful, except in a negative sense; specifications won't lead me where I want to go, but doesn't tell me much (with a few exceptions) about how to get there. From them I gather I don't need to stick with 8x42 with its exit pupil specification to get a great view; that's good news as I search for something less heavy. Unfortunately, I live in a an optics store desert in which I can't go in and just try out bins without significant pre-planning.

So, yes, please offer different phrasing and also, please, avoid one-word answers.