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Isabelline shrikes? (3 Viewers)

Sorry, I meant to reply to this post a while back. These are rather tough, which is probably why there haven't been any replies.

1. I would say this is a 1st-year Turkestan AKA Red-tailed. Rather clean white on the underparts, brownish crown, quite distinct barring/chevrons, distinct blackish ear-coverts.
2. A difficult one, as I'm not sure what the actual colour tones are - the image looks rather washed-out. Possibly a poorly-marked Turkestan but I'm far from sure, as the flanks are rather too gingery.
3. Another difficult one. Again the image looks washed-out. Rather clean white underneath but a little sandy on the upperparts and barring on the underparts is weak. The rump isn't very rufous and the rather intricate pattern on the greater coverts and inner tertials is rather odd.
4. I don't think this is either species - look at the dark lores, crescent above the eye and intricate pattern on the greater coverts with those buff edges (plus inner tertials?), plus buff-edged flight feathers. The tail appears rather dark-brown too. I'm not sure but I think it might be juvenile Bay-backed. Compare with images 5/75 and 45/75 on this page:

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-4ChSW/i-Qksfsk8

Comments welcome!
 
Thank you, andyb39! A tough query, indeed! I´m posting some more pictures. Note that I took all of them in a matter of minutes in the same area. That´s why I assumed they could be the same species.

This one, I think is the same bird as the supposed Bay-backed. But wouldn´t a Bay-backed in central Kyrgyzstan be a bit outside its common range?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/162974156@N06/29526802797/in/dateposted-public/

This one does look more like an Isabelline, doesn´t it? Although the picture is not good.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/162974156@N06/29526806807/in/dateposted-public/

An two more of the supposed Turkestani. Couldn´t they just be juvenile Isabelline? Isn´t it a bit unlikely to have three different species of shrikes in the same spot? Or you think they are the three Turkestani?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/162974156@N06/29526795117/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/162974156@N06/42655438800/in/dateposted-public/
 
Thank you, andyb39! A tough query, indeed! I´m posting some more pictures. Note that I took all of them in a matter of minutes in the same area. That´s why I assumed they could be the same species.

This one, I think is the same bird as the supposed Bay-backed. But wouldn´t a Bay-backed in central Kyrgyzstan be a bit outside its common range?

Bay-backed I have for southernmost Turkmenistan, Iran & Afghanistan, & BirdLife Datazone map its summer distribution just south of the Kyrgyzstan border and so your conclusion is accurate.
MJB
 
Hi again and sorry for the delay.

First of all I'm attaching a Dropbox link to the well-known Dutch Birding article (Worfolk) on these shrikes. I'm not sure how much our knowledge has advanced since it was written in 2002. One key point the article makes is that around 10% of rufous-tailed shrikes are not identifiable, many individuals showing intermediate characteristics. Classic individuals are not too difficult but if you look at some of the images, you'll see that there are plenty of individuals showing characteristics of both isabellinus and phoenicuroides. We get some here in the UAE.

I didn't have a clear idea where Kyrgyzstan is until I looked it up, but looking at the range map in the article, it seems to fall more in the range for Turkestan AKA Red-tailed than Isabelline, although it might also fall in the range of arenarius. This taxon, if it exists at all, is probably a subspecies of Isabelline and is generally dull, washed-out looking and rather uniform in appearance, lacking the blackish flight feathers of the other two taxa. It looks like there might be a hybridisation zone (arenarius x phoenicuroides) in or around the country. This might explain the intermediate appearance of some of these birds. It's also possible that isabellinus from further east could go through the country on passage. Kyrgyzstan is also quite close to the hybridisation zone 3 on the map, where both isabellinus and phoenicuroides AND isabellinus and collurio (Red-backed) are known to interbreed. There's also an intermediate zone between Red-backed and Brown not too far away! If this map is still accurate, heaven knows what could go through Kyrgyzstan on passage....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x7tydk03phltgds/DB_2000_22_6.pdf?dl=0

Looking at your new images, the bird you've labelled aaa (and aaaa?) seems to be the same individual as Alcarmist 5. I'm not sure what it is, but the sandy-brown upperparts, brown ear-coverts, weak barring, weak rufous coloration on the rump, brown flight feathers and pale lower mandible aren't right for Turkestan. However, the bird seems rather clean white on the underparts and throat. My best guess is that there's some arenarius influence there.

Even more difficult is the bird labelled aaaaa. It doesn't look much like an Isabelline to be honest. The mask is broad and heavy, as is the supercilium. The throat looks whitish,the upperparts greyish-brown. The big problem is the amount of gingery wash on the flanks, far too much for a Turkestan. I did wonder about Brown Shrike but it doesn't look right for it structurally (head not large enough, tail too short?). It's a little like image 334 in the article, which I don't think can be isabellinus. I saw a bird like this in the UAE last autumn too.

I would really appreciate some more input on these.
 
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