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Ivory-billed Woodpecker Re discovered ? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lassa8
- Start date
Wompoo Dove
Well-known member
Simon A said:
Simon:
Do you think there is even a remote chance that the bird exists at all?
and what efforts are being made to keep golden shouldered parrot from going the same way?
Been to OZ and loved it but its been 20 years now since I enjoyed the sound of wompoo pigeons and aussie magpies etc.
Don
Wompoo Dove
Well-known member
Bono said:
Vive la Canada aussi le province de Nouveau Brunswick!
Wompoo Dove
Well-known member
Curtis Croulet said:
I surprised the Pathetic sorts at CNN didnt have a cariacature of Nancy Kulp aka Miss hatheway of the Beverly Hill billies out there in khaki shorts pretending to see an ivory bill as well. CNN is the most pathetic news station in north america. I quickly zip by them whenever I see them on the televison screen and go to FOX news or something else... They might not find it so funny if several million north american birders stopped viewing their sad newsreels and any other products they offer...
You can tell I am a bit agitated and tired of less than brilliant media like CNN attempting to cover wildlife research when they do not even have the competence to cover a story left over from the National Enquirer...
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
Wompoo Dove said:
I know there are many people that hold a different view and I do hope people will refrain from changing this into a political discussion (it wouldn't be a long jump). The history of such discussions on BirdForum clearly reveal that nothing usually is gained from them. Back to the amazing Ivory-bill...
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Wompoo Dove
Well-known member
Rasmus Boegh said:
Well said Rasmus... I couldnt help as a birder blow off some steam though at the less than gracious way of handling such an amazing event by CNN. I went a bit far with suggesting boycotts etc... lol I was just so insensed by such a severe lack of professionalism considering the gravity of this amazing discovery!!!!
having said that... here here lets talk about ivory bills and keep pinching ourselves that this amazing discovery is indeed true...!!!
How about the challenge (retold in http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/07/22/woodpecker.question.ap/index.html) dismissing the video as showing a leucistic pileated?
Niels
Niels
cuckooroller
Registered User
Regardless of this expected, and I might add, necessary questioning of the validity of the rediscovery of the IBW, until such time as other sightings are convalidated there will be controversy and congecture. Personally, I am convinced of the validity of the rediscovery and though I suppose contemplating some type of screwy leucistic Pileated is the only way to go to cast doubt, I find it not very creditable considering the conformation that the leucistic marking would have to assume to even faintly resemble the white markings of the IBW.
dacol
Well-known member
njlarsen said:
The video show whites on the wings where one would expect IBWO to show
white as well as white on the dorsal area, also consistent with IBWO. There are a couple of frames of a perched woodpecker with the black-white-black pattern one would expect from IBWO. Thus not only it would have to be an aberrant plumaged PiIeated but it would have to have the plumage aberrations in a very unique pattern. And then there is the size of the bird in the video, the size estimates from one of frame sequences with the bird perched yield estimates that are well above the averages for Pileated and compatible with IBWOs. Thus the supposedly aberrantly plumaged Pileated is also a giant one. It seems to me that this concocted aberrantly sized and plumaged "Pileated" fails Occam's razor test. It is an extremely ad hoc explanation when a much simpler one exists.
Thus the skeptics have to hypothesize the existence of a giant, aberrantly plumaged Pileated Woodpecker with a pattern of white that resembles IBWO. It is known that there are aberrantly plumaged Pileated woodpeckers but sizes in adult birds of a given species tend to have a small range of variation. Thus the skeptics would either have to demonstrate the existence of such giant Pileated or show the flaws that invalidate the size estimates discussed in the Science article (with details contained in the supporting materials available from the Science website).
Dalcio
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I will be interested to see what the precise nature of the challenge is. Will it be a very specific, practical one, for example a demonstration that the video could easily involve a pileated woodpecker? Or will it be a more general, abstract one, a kind of defense of scientific rigour and evidence, which the challengers feel are not sufficiently respected in the rediscovery paper? We’ll have to wait and see.
In addition to the three ornithologists, the newspaper articles I’ve read suggest that prominent birders, such as David Sibley and Kenn Kaufman, also find the currently provided evidence somewhat wanting. Not unreasonably, they want repeated excellent views and good quality photos as proof. For them, it should essentially be as plain as the nose on your face that the bird exists. The late Eirik Blom wrote an elegant article in 2002, just after the Pearl River search, on the likelihood (or lack thereof) of the ivorybill’s survival:
http://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/site/conservation/ivory_billed_woodpecker.aspx
It is thought-provoking, even persuasive. I wonder what he would have made of the Arkansas reports. The ivorybill’s story, while absolutely fascinating, is also very puzzling. Why are sightings so difficult to confirm? Where have the birds been hiding out if they exist? Are there (or at least were there) really not one but several small populations tucked away near the locations of the most credible sightings since the Singer Tract birds vanished (Big Thicket, Atchafalaya, Pearl River, Big Woods, Chipola River)? In addition to better views by more people and higher quality photos, I hope the future holds answers to some of these intriguing questions--as well as the discovery of a viable population.
While I remain mystified at how a bird, if it exists, could be so elusive, almost supernaturally so, I tend to believe that the species is indeed still with us. Although it’s frustrating that views have remained so few and fleeting, despite the incredible effort, my mathematics (rather than biology) background comes to my aid. In mathematics, a visual representation of a conjecture might appear to make the result obvious. But it won’t convince anyone. Only rigorous logical reasoning can establish a theorem. In the case of the ivorybill and the rediscovery article, if the measurements in the video have been done properly and the deductive reasoning ruling out pileated is logically valid, then it’s an ivorybill. It doesn’t matter that the video is crappy and that we can’t really be sure just by watching the images. It’s an ivorybill.
In addition to the three ornithologists, the newspaper articles I’ve read suggest that prominent birders, such as David Sibley and Kenn Kaufman, also find the currently provided evidence somewhat wanting. Not unreasonably, they want repeated excellent views and good quality photos as proof. For them, it should essentially be as plain as the nose on your face that the bird exists. The late Eirik Blom wrote an elegant article in 2002, just after the Pearl River search, on the likelihood (or lack thereof) of the ivorybill’s survival:
http://www.birdwatchersdigest.com/site/conservation/ivory_billed_woodpecker.aspx
It is thought-provoking, even persuasive. I wonder what he would have made of the Arkansas reports. The ivorybill’s story, while absolutely fascinating, is also very puzzling. Why are sightings so difficult to confirm? Where have the birds been hiding out if they exist? Are there (or at least were there) really not one but several small populations tucked away near the locations of the most credible sightings since the Singer Tract birds vanished (Big Thicket, Atchafalaya, Pearl River, Big Woods, Chipola River)? In addition to better views by more people and higher quality photos, I hope the future holds answers to some of these intriguing questions--as well as the discovery of a viable population.
While I remain mystified at how a bird, if it exists, could be so elusive, almost supernaturally so, I tend to believe that the species is indeed still with us. Although it’s frustrating that views have remained so few and fleeting, despite the incredible effort, my mathematics (rather than biology) background comes to my aid. In mathematics, a visual representation of a conjecture might appear to make the result obvious. But it won’t convince anyone. Only rigorous logical reasoning can establish a theorem. In the case of the ivorybill and the rediscovery article, if the measurements in the video have been done properly and the deductive reasoning ruling out pileated is logically valid, then it’s an ivorybill. It doesn’t matter that the video is crappy and that we can’t really be sure just by watching the images. It’s an ivorybill.
Snowy1
Well-known member
One important thing to add - the flight of the bird in the video.
I have never seen a Pileated fly so direct with such rapid wingbeats. To me, that is the most convincing feature the video has to offer. There has been much documentation about the flight of the Ivorybill vs the Pileated.
I have never seen a Pileated fly so direct with such rapid wingbeats. To me, that is the most convincing feature the video has to offer. There has been much documentation about the flight of the Ivorybill vs the Pileated.
dacol
Well-known member
Just found an article, reprinted from a local newspaper, that deals with the sighting by John Trochet and others of an IBWO in the Cache NWR on April 2005, just before the announcement:
http://www.su.edu/temp_news.cfm?urlnum=542
Dalcio
http://www.su.edu/temp_news.cfm?urlnum=542
Dalcio
Rasmus Boegh
BF member
I am only pleased a group dared to express their doubts when they had them. A rediscovery should not be taken lighthearted. However, now it seems even they have turned around after sound recordings were made available to them. Evidence that, if combined with the video, seem even more conclusive.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/02/s...&en=4ddf1b56da5e91cf&ei=5094&partner=homepage
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/02/s...&en=4ddf1b56da5e91cf&ei=5094&partner=homepage
